Are you preparing for not-so-good-times ahead

[EweSheep]

Baker, I sure hope Illinois would be joining the states that adopted the weapon concealed law but alas, NOOOOOOOOo!

PS, BIL has the Henry repeating rifle....he woudl not loan it out to ANYONE and sure, it's his baby!

Illinois is so backward in allowing guns, type of guns but yet, criminals with bad history still continue to get it.

 

[Bullitt]

Quote:
That was a lot of information I did not know. Thank you.

I was thinking for the purposes of our doomsday discussion here that people could purchase semi-automatic rifles, and then if the system did fall apart people could easily convert them to fully automatic.

I don't buy into these theories that the Earth's poles are going to shift, a super volcano will wipe out half the country, an economic collapse will happen that will be so bad that it results in the end of the United States, or whatever else the doomsday preppers are preparing for.

I do think it is a good idea to be prepared for natural disasters and things like that. And it is always a good idea for a household to have a gun for protection.

 

[Q9]

Do you mean fully automatic?

I understand a gunsmith can change a semi-automatic to an automatic pretty easily. But fully automatic weapons are not legal in most U.S. states.

A semi-automatic rifle can be shot pretty fast. You only have maybe 30 to 50 rounds in a magazine. With an automatic rifle, probably three or four squeezes on the trigger and the magazine is empty.

I can't see spending $10,000 on even a whole gun, much less just the lower receiver.

But I also have never liked the military-style rifles. I prefer a bolt-action rifle in .270, .308 or .30/06 with a scope. I will be able to hit someone with an AK, AR or M-16 before they get close enough to use their rifle.

You can also get something like a Ruger Mini-14 .223 Ranch Rifle that is semi-automatic and has a magazine feed. You can get 30-round magazines for it. You should be able to buy one of those rifles for less than $500.

Long-range systems can be very useful in some situations, but in a lot of the South, you're not likely to encounter distances past 200 or so yards unless you're standing on a road. By all means invest in a .308 (military still uses .308/7.62 NATO in some situations, and is popular with hunters, thus would be very, very common if TSHTF) bolt rifle with a good scope, but a high-capacity medium range weapon like an AK-47 or AR-15 is absolutely a must-have in many situations. Pump shotguns are also very handy, thanks to their sheer versatility. Of course, I'd like to save up and get the best of all worlds - a Springfield M1A. 20 round magazine, .308, accurate at 800+ yards, almost as reliable as the AK, and is still in use by the US military as a DMR, if I'm not mistaken. Wouldn't mind an FAL, either. Sadly, any high-quality battle rifle is pretty expensive, and .308 is something like a dollar a round unless you're buying surplus. I'll probably be investing in a MAK-90 soon - it's a Chinese AK, with a thicker barrel, thus greater accuracy.

BTW, if you live out where there's TONS of vast, open space, like the deserts of Arizona, do yourself a favor and invest in a sniper system in .338 Lapua, .408, or .50 BMG. Extremely expensive, they are. But the .338 is accurate to 1000+ yards, .408 and .50 even farther. If the crap hit the fan, those would be a HUGE strategic advantage in the West.

 

[Bullitt]

Again, I couldn't afford the ammunition for those guns.

Some of those guns would probably make you want to cry if you shot them a few times because the recoil is so hard.

I saw some show about a rifle that shoots a .338 bullet but is even better than the .338 Lapua and can hit a target at 1 1/2 miles. The gun comes with a calculator that plots your position and the position of the target, and then you dial in the scope to hit the target. That is impressive. Don't stand out in the open.

Cheap Russian-made .308 ammunition sells for $8 for a box of 20 rounds, and it can be used for practice. Some guns can shoot it and some can't, and you can't reload the casings. Good .308 ammunition starts at about $16 a box.

The great thing about a bolt-action rifle with a scope is that it can be used at fairly close range to farther out than most people have the skill to shoot. 500 yards is a good distance. It takes a lot of practice and some natural ability to shoot a man-sized target at distances like 800 yards with a .308.

The scope can come off if needed to shoot at short ranges, also. It's very flexible.

Farmland is an area where long shots may be necessary, also.

I don't call my rifle a weapon system. I call it a rifle.

But I was not in the military.

 

[gickelvolk]

Keep it simple with your choice of firearms...... Common calibres will enhance your chances of bartering of foraging ammo if necessary.

Handguns: 9mm, .45, 38SP
Shotgun: 12ga., 20ga., .410
Rifle: 30-06, 308, 30-30, .22, .270(?)

What good is a Weatherby .240 Magnum if you can't buy/barter ammo?

...... just sayin'

 

[Bullitt]

Keep it simple with your choice of firearms...... Common calibres will enhance your chances of bartering of foraging ammo if necessary.

Handguns: 9mm, .45, 38SP
Shotgun: 12ga., 20ga., .410
Rifle: 30-06, 308, 30-30, .22, .270(?)

What good is a Weatherby .240 Magnum if you can't buy/barter ammo?

...... just sayin'

I agree, but because the ammunition is common and less expensive, not because the system is going to fall apart and I will have to trade ammunition for food, or food for ammunition.

A .357 revolver is good, because it can shoot both .357 magnum and .38 special ammunition.

If I could only have one of each, I would have a .357 magnum revolver with about a 3- or 4-inch barrel, 12-guage pump shotgun, and .308 bolt-action rifle with a scope.

A .22 rifle is very useful to have also. Maybe I'd have four guns.

 

[phasianidae]

If I was in the situation of defending my home from intruders I would prefer to take more of a stealth approach such as hiding out in the grass, outbuildings, trees, and sniping them off one by one with a .223 as apposed barricading myself in and using a machine gun or something -- but that's just me. If they were already in the house then I would use a 12 or 20 guage or a 9mm. There are plenty of stories about people defending their homes with a .22 but there just isn't much stopping power with them. I'd love to have a 30-06, I went to a guys place a couple years ago and tried shooting down tree branches with one.

 

[Mattemma]

Just read the book Survivors by Rawles about the economic collapse and the survival of the various folks in the story.Weapons and silver/gold for trade was a must. I have NO pre 1965 coins.Do banks even carry those???Do you get those at pawns? Buy gold jewlery?

I hated to read it,but I think the worst(and true) part was the corruption of many. The provisional government was corrupt,and ofcourse there were the organised roving thugs-both did what they wanted.

Besides basic food and fuel having seeds were also important.

The book was fictional,but the possibility of it seems so very real.The whole money system is quite delicate,and when one thing fails the rest falls quickly. I just hate the parts about people going *bad*.Lot of good people in the end-of the-world as we-know it books,but the bad ones make life so much harder. Without a weapon to protect your family you are really at a loss.,because you just can not barter with a person who has no interest in whether you live of die.

 

[Q9]

Again, I couldn't afford the ammunition for those guns.

Some of those guns would probably make you want to cry if you shot them a few times because the recoil is so hard.

I saw some show about a rifle that shoots a .338 bullet but is even better than the .338 Lapua and can hit a target at 1 1/2 miles. The gun comes with a calculator that plots your position and the position of the target, and then you dial in the scope to hit the target. That is impressive. Don't stand out in the open.

Cheap Russian-made .308 ammunition sells for $8 for a box of 20 rounds, and it can be used for practice. Some guns can shoot it and some can't, and you can't reload the casings. Good .308 ammunition starts at about $16 a box.

The great thing about a bolt-action rifle with a scope is that it can be used at fairly close range to farther out than most people have the skill to shoot. 500 yards is a good distance. It takes a lot of practice and some natural ability to shoot a man-sized target at distances like 800 yards with a .308.

The scope can come off if needed to shoot at short ranges, also. It's very flexible.

Farmland is an area where long shots may be necessary, also.

I don't call my rifle a weapon system. I call it a rifle.

But I was not in the military.

I only refer to weapon "systems" in the context of ridiculously huge weapons like .50 cal. rifles and machine guns like the PKM. Anything else is a rifle.

And no, I do not know if weapon system is even a correct term. I just say it because it seems right.

Personally, my plan is to have a medium-range high-capacity combat rifle (AK, AR, FAL, etc.), a long-range rifle (.308 bolt-action), 12-gauge pump shotgun, handgun of some sort (.357, probably), and I already have a .22. Exotic calibers are a no-go for me. Can't really buy those in bulk. The great thing about military ammo (.308/7.62 NATO, .223/5.56 NATO, 7.62X39, 5.45X39) is that you can buy bulk packs in sealed ammo cans for a really low per-bullet cost. The cans will last AGES, meaning they're excellent for stashing away, and they're airtight. No ammo corrosion! To make it even better, electronics can be stored in empty ammo cans, which will protect them from an EMP.

Regarding recoil... ever shot a K98 Mauser? Good gosh, that thing has an almighty kick, but DANG it was fun to shoot. I'll be honest, never fired a .408 or .50, but since they're the sniper rifles in use by the military, it's a pretty safe bet that they're accurate.

Why do I have a sneaking suspicion that the DHS has me on a watch list?

 

[zzGypsy]

If I was in the situation of defending my home from intruders I would prefer to take more of a stealth approach such as hiding out in the grass, outbuildings, trees, and sniping them off one by one with a .223 as apposed barricading myself in and using a machine gun or something -- but that's just me. If they were already in the house then I would use a 12 or 20 guage or a 9mm. There are plenty of stories about people defending their homes with a .22 but there just isn't much stopping power with them. I'd love to have a 30-06, I went to a guys place a couple years ago and tried shooting down tree branches with one.

see there's the problem... if you were in a position to *have* to defend your home, you very well may not have any time to choose your method...

there's three general scenarios here...

one is that you a) know there's a collapse or some such going on, b) have prepared in advance, c) have a way to be alerted when you are about to be under assault and d) have time to get you and your family home, and e) have time to prepare. that's going to require communications and ability to travel, or perimiter alarms, or a warning system of some sort.

scenario two is a) you know there's a collapse going on, b) have prepared in advance, and c) have no way to know when you're about to be under assault or have no time to respond to that information.

scenario three is a) you don't know that something is going down, b) have prepared anyway, and c) get supprised in your tracks.

your prefered approach only works in the first case... scenarios two and three are, I think, far the more likely of the three situations, and both require walking around prepared all the time, ready to do battle on the spot, with no notice. they would require a mounted defense at all times to deploy your preference. scenario three also requires you to figure out that something is happening without outside information and in the moment, under pressure, with, theoretically, your family's lives in the balance. in which case you won't be staked out in the weeds, and your preferences really don't come into play at all.

I think preparedness is not only about EOWAWKI and Waco Texas, but also about huricane Katrina (where law enforcement disarmed people who were still in their homes), and riots and home invasion robberies. in that last item you may have no warning, and no prep time, and all your decisions may have to be made on your feet, and your defense needs to be done with what's on your body at the moment.

Aside from that, consider some other contemporary situations... although not so much a problem in the US right now... a friend of mine and her husband were visiting his family in India and they had a home invasion robbery... conducted by armed and uniformed police officers. now you not only have the on-your-feet decisions to make, but in the face of apparent authorities. at first, she says, it was not clear it was a robbery, they conducted it like a police raid. so someone looking like cops break into your house, looking and sounding like authorities, with no notice and no prep time.

it's an extreme example, but as I said, preparation to me is, in part, to conteplate the "what if" thoroughly, and mentally pre-plan options, to consider how to assess a situation on your feet.

I'm a shooting instructor, and while I was living in CA the "tactical" shooting classes were geting a LOT of traction. there's a lot folks who want to explore the "combat" side of shooting. most of the trainings, allways filled with a waiting list, are so far from anything actually tactical it's kind of like playing dress-up. but hey, it's a fun day shooting, so it's all good. except maybe it leads folks to think they're more prepared than they are, and that might lead them to not prepare as fully as they would if they understood.

I think a lot of folks strategic planning is probably more of the let's play cowboys and indians variety - stimulating to think about but ultimately not very likely to work or to even be useful in 'real' situations. I think very few folks train under circumstances that come even close to the kind of shock and adrenaline they would actually be experiencing in *any* of the scenarios people envision they'd be preparing for. should there be an EOTW scenario, I think a few folks will be lucky, a few will be lucky and prepared, a very few will actually be prepared enough to not need to be lucky.

Personally I think a tornado is far more likely than EOTW. I think riots are a remote possibility, and a water/power/food shortage due to winter storms is fairly likely, at least for short periods. from a preparedness standpoint, most of my friends think I'm at least clinically diagnosable as paranoid. my take on it is this:
I may be paranoid, but that's not proof they're *not* out to get me...
and...
What is called paranoia today may be declared prudence tomorrow.

I do what makes me feel calm, preparedness wise. that means having means, skills, supplies, plans, resources. aside from being prepared, those are things I genuinely enjoy doing, and would do even if I lived with certainty of plenty and peace and uninteruptable supply sources. I figure since it harms noone, it's a fine hobby, good for the economy, and keeps me off the streets and out of trouble at night.