Articular gout

[Amanda.Bouvier]

Hello,

I have a 6 year old Speckled Sussex hen with pretty severe articular gout in both feet, she's been on Nutrena layer pellets her whole life, the gout has developed over the past 3 months. I don't know much about it, is there any help for reversing this disease?

Thank you
Amanda

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Hello,

I have a 6 year old Speckled Sussex hen with pretty severe articular gout in both feet, she's been on Nutrena layer pellets her whole life, the gout has developed over the past 3 months. I don't know much about it, is there any help for reversing this disease?

Thank you
Amanda

Hi, welcome to BYC!

Sorry for your gals discomfort/trouble.

I know too much calcium (more than 3%) fed long term to birds NOT in lay CAN cause gout and kidney failure. That include ladies who are molting, roosters, broody's, and juveniles.

Also, Sussex is a dual purpose breed and will do better with about 18-20% protein in their feed than the 16% that is most Layer. Too much protein could also cause a type of gout that is different, but that would be about 30% plus. It may be more prevalent in birds who are predisposed to it. Some people who feed layer the whole life will never experience it because their birds will pass before that.

IMO, the best thing you can do is switch to a flock raiser or grower with only about 1% calcium and provide oyster shell on the side for the ladies who are still laying. Reversal, I don't know... but yes I do think gout can be aggravated or helped with diet and see it in humans all the time. My birds get Purina 20% Flock Raiser (all the labels mean nothing it's about nutrient analysis), their whole life start to finish with OS on the side for the layers. It works for me because I always have varied ages and genders in my flock.

I would also ensure that her roost isn't too high and provide a ramp if needed, though it might require a little teaching how to use if they aren't familiar.

My bottom line is 18-20% protein and 1% ish calcium with oyster shell on the side. Expect it to take a little while to see a difference IF it is going to work/help. Maybe a few weeks or so.

Maybe an occasional raw and unfiltered ACV added to the water wouldn't hurt, for the probiotics. Curious, did you have the gout diagnosed by a vet?

Speckled Sussex are one of the prettiest birds!

Hope this helps and she feels better.

 

[Amanda.Bouvier]

Hi, welcome to BYC!

Sorry for your gals discomfort/trouble.

I know too much calcium (more than 3%) fed long term to birds NOT in lay CAN cause gout and kidney failure. That include ladies who are molting, roosters, broody's, and juveniles.

Also, Sussex is a dual purpose breed and will do better with about 18-20% protein in their feed than the 16% that is most Layer. Too much protein could also cause a type of gout that is different, but that would be about 30% plus. It may be more prevalent in birds who are predisposed to it. Some people who feed layer the whole life will never experience it because their birds will pass before that.

IMO, the best thing you can do is switch to a flock raiser or grower with only about 1% calcium and provide oyster shell on the side for the ladies who are still laying. Reversal, I don't know... but yes I do think gout can be aggravated or helped with diet and see it in humans all the time. My birds get Purina 20% Flock Raiser (all the labels mean nothing it's about nutrient analysis), their whole life start to finish with OS on the side for the layers. It works for me because I always have varied ages and genders in my flock.

I would also ensure that her roost isn't too high and provide a ramp if needed, though it might require a little teaching how to use if they aren't familiar.

My bottom line is 18-20% protein and 1% ish calcium with oyster shell on the side. Expect it to take a little while to see a difference IF it is going to work/help. Maybe a few weeks or so.

Maybe an occasional raw and unfiltered ACV added to the water wouldn't hurt, for the probiotics. Curious, did you have the gout diagnosed by a vet?

Speckled Sussex are one of the prettiest birds!

Hope this helps and she feels better.

Thanks so much for the input, Ill def change their feed. It wasn't diagnosed by a vet, I originally thought it was bumble foot because there was a swelling at the base of only one foot. I could never find a wound though so I just kept watching it, then it spread to the other foot and all the joints . So I just assumed gout....

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Thanks so much for the input, Ill def change their feed. It wasn't diagnosed by a vet, I originally thought it was bumble foot because there was a swelling at the base of only one foot. I could never find a wound though so I just kept watching it, then it spread to the other foot and all the joints . So I just assumed gout....

I don't know if gout and arthritis are the same thing. But 6 is a good age for a chicken, and even in my 40's things are starting to hurt!

Change in diet may or may not help her. But it won't hurt your other birds. If you don't see any improvement within at least 2 months if not sooner, then you can always switch back. But I do KNOW that diet impacts a lot of our issues both good and bad.

I hope she improves but you should probably decide when might be the humane time to put her down if needed. Or if you will let her fade for lack of a better word. Natural death is often not a comfortable way to go.

Interesting link, and a quote from it which is not my original source of info regarding too much calcium. But I respect the Merk vet manual as a fairly reliable source of information..
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/poult...s-of-poultry/urate-deposition-gout-in-poultry

"Noninfectious causes include dehydration, ingestion of feed containing >3% calcium by nonlaying chickens, vitamin A deficiency, and exposure to myotoxins (eg, oosporein)."

One last thought.. there MAY be some anti inflammatory that could be useful in pain reduction. Seems like aspirin might one that's used in birds. But please don't take my word for this and do your own research. I know some are hard on the kidney though while others might cause stomach ulcers (don't know how this applies to chickens) and so that might not be a good route. So just a thought for you to look into. I am here to learn also.

It's OK to make your own diagnosis, many of must and do according to the best of our ability. It may or may not be accurate, but having BYC sure does help!

Also just make sure she isn't jumping down from high places and injuring herself. Alternative to building a ramp is lowering the roost if it's high. And make sure it's a soft not hard landing.

I still might try the acv water once a week or so.

I hope you will update how she is doing.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Hello,

I have a 6 year old Speckled Sussex hen with pretty severe articular gout in both feet, she's been on Nutrena layer pellets her whole life, the gout has developed over the past 3 months. I don't know much about it, is there any help for reversing this disease?

Thank you
Amanda

Hi @Amanda.Bouvier Welcome To BYC

I'm sorry to hear about your hen. Can you post some photos of her feet and of her too?

 

[lazy gardener]

Here's an other article: http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/3509/gout-management-in-poultry/

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Here's an other article: http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/3509/gout-management-in-poultry/

That was a good easy to understand article.

I know it's a little off topic... but it seems as though most feed I get access to is at least 6-8 weeks past mill date and takes another 3-4 for me to use. Since I know this is my next area of focus with nutrition... Do you have a link to share regarding the nutrient loss with age that I can read and basically know what exactly kind of losses I'm looking at? Of course I consider you trustworthy and with mostly good information! Just it's good for my brain to have it's own interpretation and see the parameters that were set in the studies. Thank you.

 

[lazy gardener]

I'll have to do some searching, and yet may not come up with anything. I take my advice from a section regarding oxidation of feed in the book written by Harvey Ussery. He quotes a poultry feed nutritionist regarding the 6 week issue. I find myself having increasing difficulty accessing fresh feed, even from my favored feed store. I am depending on the fact that my feed is kept super cold right now, which would act to help prevent oxidation of the nutrients.

https://www.amazon.com/Small-Scale-Poultry-Flock-All-Natural-Approach/dp/1603582908

 

[lazy gardener]

Jeff Mattocks: I quote this paragraph in the following PDF article:

http://ucanr.edu/sites/placernevadasmallfarms/files/102993.pdf

• Freshness: Freshness of feed impacts the appetite and therefore the production of poultry. When the feed is fresh, poultry will eat more frequently. However it is nearly impossible to make feed daily. Feeds are at the optimum levels for up to 14 days, and are satisfactory up to 45 days after grinding or milling. After 45 day the feed is generally so stale or oxidized that poultry appetite will be severely depressed. Oxidation starts immediately after the grinding or cracking of the grain. This oxidation occurs because of newly exposed moisture and starches within the grains. The oxidation of the starches will cause some energy losses of the feed value. However in most cases these losses are negligible when fed within 30-45 days after processing. Typical losses will include 10% of energy, 1-2% of the protein, 10% most vitamins, 30% vitamin K, and 15% riboflavin under normal storage conditions for 60 days.

 

[Eggcessive]

Many things can cause gout, from too much calcium, too high of protein in the diet, too much sodium, exposure to afltoxin (mold,) and a genetic tendency, among others. Articular gout usually affects the feet, while bacterial arthritis or mycoplasma synovitis can cause swollen ankle and leg joints. Pictures can sometimes be bery helpful.