Assisted Hatch?

[Birdland80]

Hello everyone,
I'm a new member and so so happy to have found such a wealth on information here on BYC. I am mid way through my first time using an incubator, with a staggered hatch of both chicken and duck eggs (Taken randomly out of the eggs that were bound for breakfast, as we have NO broody hens wanting to warm them). My first question is about a chick that is on day 23-24 (isa cross golden leg bar). late. She hasn't pipped so I opened her air sac to see what was going on. The veining on the inner membrane is still enough to warrant her needed more time, however its day 23-24? How much more time should I give her? She is malpositioned as well. I have had three successful hatches, two normal and one assisted as she was stuck in the wrong end of the end. I have lost five that were all in the wrong position, and two hadn't finished absorbing the yolk. The other three looked totally normal, but seemed like they maybe had run out of air? They hadn't pipped, and were overdue, and I wish that I might have assisted them. Should i try and assist this current chick? Is there any way of taking the shell and then the outer membrane, leaving the inner membrane, so I can at least find her head/beak and give her a chance on not suffocating? Any advice is appreciated. Even constructive criticism

 

[Shezadandy]

Here is my very favorite resource on assisted hatching.

*edited to add: Many reference to 'first time hatchers' in the article -- but I STILL read it top to bottom before every single hatch.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/step-by-step-guide-to-assisted-hatching.64660/

 

[Shezadandy]

Here's another link - this guy did an amazing job documenting a shell-less egg hatch from day 1 till "hatch" (yes, it hatches and lives)- it's a great aid to picturing what's going on in there. The actual development time lapse starts at 4:49 if you don't want to see all the set-up stuff.

 

[Birdland80]

Here is my very favorite resource on assisted hatching.

*edited to add: Many reference to 'first time hatchers' in the article -- but I STILL read it top to bottom before every single hatch.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/step-by-step-guide-to-assisted-hatching.64660/

Thank for your reply! Thats Assisted Hatching post is priceless! I have read it dozens of times over the last weeks. It has information on the mal positioned, but I really don't know how to find the beak accurately. They do make a small hole for the beak once found, but I have to find it first. I really don't want any blood loss. But I am concerned about the lateness of hatch and air supply/

 

[Shezadandy]

Thank for your reply! Thats Assisted Hatching post is priceless! I have read it dozens of times over the last weeks. It has information on the mal positioned, but I really don't know how to find the beak accurately. They do make a small hole for the beak once found, but I have to find it first. I really don't want any blood loss. But I am concerned about the lateness of hatch and air supply/

It's always worth a shot - but yes, locating the beak is one of the hardest things to do when it's not where it should be. Is there still movement in there? You might have some inconsistent areas in your incubator. I did one hatch in my incubator - a cheaper model - and OMG the differences in temperature from area to area were a nightmare. Anyhow - what I'm getting at is it could be just where that egg was in the incubator - a cooler spot that's causing it to hatch late. That happened to me also- all but 1 hatched, ultimately. One had curled toes which I was able to fix pretty easily.

However you approach it- I would make sure the membrane is well lubricated with either bacitracin or coconut oil and for what you're talking about: I would have an egg carton on hand to help support what's left of the shell as you go along. If you've got pulp cartons, line it with saran wrap to keep the paper carton from siphoning off moisture from the egg. In theory - if you moisturize the membrane as you chip away, it should make the membrane transparent enough to find the beak. If you can manage to do this without breaking the membrane (i.e. before the chick is ready to start breathing), it should be able to poke through the membrane when it's ready.

It's such a delicate time and very damned if you do and damned if you don't. If it's a saddle-shaped air cell, chipping down along the 'deep' part of that air cell can give a better view of things, and at least that way the shell is already somewhat separated from the shell as opposed to peeling it off fresh membrane. If it's not a saddle shaped air cell, personally, I would still work my way down the length of the egg as opposed to trying to make a hole and chip from the narrow end. But that's just me. At that point it's a rescue if you can.

There's still a chance the chick could pip the egg as the veins still don't appear ready and my understanding is it hasn't started breathing yet. Sigh. I wish I had a magic wand in these scenarios!! ​

 

[FortCluck]

I just assisted this chick on Saturday, it was day 23. The chick was very weak and hadn't even pipped yet. Now it's doing so good I can't tell which one it is out of our 21 chicks.

I made a safety hole first then I peeled back the shell in little pieces very slowly with sterile tweezers. Once I got the chick out I put it back in the incubator for 12 hours so that it could dry. It wasn't very active at first and could barely move. I put electrolytes in a sterile syringe and dropped little droplets of it on its beak.

 

[LynnaePB]

I'm so sorry you've had a difficult hatch, I hope this late little one makes it for you.

What can you see beneath the membrane under the air cell? Do you see the yolk sac/feet? Can you see the chicks shoulder/wing? There are some malpositions where you won't be able to find the beak because the chick could have the beak between its thighs facing the middle of the egg.

The ones with the head between thigh or feet over head position that I've helped I could not see much/any of the feet and no yolk sac (they were not the wrong way around they just hadn't turned their head up where it needed to be to hatch). I could usually find their shoulder however.

I don't know what is the best way to assist in this situation but I can share what I've done in the past with my babies who were in the head between thighs or feet over head position (something that has happened a few times to me especially with shipped eggs). With this malposition I have not had great success. Sadly only about a third of the babies survive but at least assisting gives them a chance versus no chance without the assist.

With the ones with the head between thighs or feet over head position to give them a chance the only way I've been able to help is to make a viewing window (removing a decent amount of shell over the air cell). Next I identify where their shoulder is and then make a hole in the inner membrane (being very careful not to tear any of the larger blood vessels, a few small ones may have minimal bleeding). Once I have made the hole I pinch some of the down at the base/middle of their neck (it'll be just a little above the shoulder, paying attention to the direction the down is laying can help to make sure you are getting the down over the neck and not part way down the back). Then I very carefully and gently pull on that down, without too much resistance the neck should start coming out of the hole I made, I keep going until I've got the babies head out. After the head is out and the baby has access to air I prop the egg up with tissue paper or toilet paper making sure the babies head is supported with some of the tissue paper acting as a sort of pillow. Then I wait for the blood vessels and yolk to be absorbed. The baby will usually start fussing and trying to get out of the egg when it is ready to come out, I make sure I don't take it out if there are any active blood vessels or if the baby is making chewing/eating motions with its beak (which is indicative of it still absorbing its yolk).

Here are two pictures I took of one of my difficult assists (both little silkies had their feet over their heads and beak facing inward, these were from shipped eggs). The black one in the clearer picture hatched but sadly passed about a day after hatching (it was obvious after she hatched that she was going to have problems as her legs were stiff and crossed over one another preventing walking and her breathing was abnormal). The lighter chick survived and pretty much acted like a naturally hatching chick right away (just as vigorous as the naturally hatching babies). Sorry for the terrible second picture that egg was in an area in the incubator where it was hard to photograph).

 

[Birdland80]

Thank you everyone for the info! priceless!. I did find the beak. It took a long long time! lots of trips back and forth from the bator to keep her warm. There is one large vein I can see this morning that doesn't seem to have got any smaller? I did find the yolk, and it is smaller this morning. She is cheeping and wriggling about, but I am not comfortable to help her out just yet because of the vein. Its nearly day 25. She's a big chick as well. I will keep her membrane moist and see how she goes over this afternoon.

 

[Birdland80]

Can you see the vein that travels over her head and down the right side?

 

[Birdland80]

I'm not sure if I was meant to, but it seemed to help once I had taken the shell off that i tipped the egg back and worth, very slowly, and she wiggled her little body around constantly. I think this gave her room to reposition a bit and helped me find her beak as she was in a different when I can back to her the last time before finding her beak.