Avian Bird Flu - Preventatives?

[raingarden]

Sounds like crazy talk to me. Where is the supporting evidence for these conspiracies?..... besides Facebook, lol

 

[Aunt Angus]

The injectable Ivermectin can be given orally to treat viruses; there is a great article on West Nile Virus treatment by an avian vet using Ivermectin for this on FB.

I'd be very interested to read this, if you can post the link. I subscribe to numerous journals, and the only studies I've seen about using Ivermectin for West Nile is treating birds to kill the mosquitoes to slow the transmission of the virus to animals and humans - not treating the illness directly. But that'd be great if there's more to that story.

 

[Dovemaiden]

I'd be very interested to read this, if you can post the link. I subscribe to numerous journals, and the only studies I've seen about using Ivermectin for West Nile is treating birds to kill the mosquitoes to slow the transmission of the virus to animals and humans - not treating the illness directly. But that'd be great if there's more to that story.

The State Wildlife Resources ( Game and Fish) have been using and advocating this for a number of years. I will get you links on both.

 

[Dovemaiden]

The injectable Ivermectin can be given orally to treat viruses; there is a great article on West Nile Virus treatment by an avian vet using Ivermectin for this on FB. I don't habe the link at the moment, but can find it. I used it as the vet said on a couple of raptors with West Nile quite successfully.
There was an article as well on BYC discussing the worming dose for Ivermectin using either the powder or the injectible, which as a liquid, may be added to the drinking water as the only water source for a couple of days. You would need to see if you could locate it. If I come across it again I will flag it and send to you.
There was another article on here giving the dosage " for a Bantam" chicken as a quarter of a cc (the injectable but orally) . The only problem here is that a weight was not given, and Ivermectin goes by weight.
The FDA and USDA have no incentive to advocate for Ivermectin because it is a generic drug which is extremely cheap to make, and sell, so the pharmaceutical companies cannot claim royalties off it. The USDA and FDA are, unfortunately, under the thumb of the pharmaceutical companies and the medications they wish to have the public buy. I wish the FDA were truly a watchdog for the American Public, but sadly, they are not. If you go back over the last few years, you will see that people working for the FDA end up leaving and getting a very cushy job under pharmaceutical companies almost immediately until the end of their career. That speaks volumes.
There are many good articles in Pub med, Cell, NIH, Virology, Nature, etc on ivermectin's versatility and efficacy. However, ivermectin has recently been demonized by the media, who refuse to look at the studies, which are valid and in vivo, not just in vitro. The unfortunate reality is that the pharmaceutical companies do not want you using a cheap, generic drug because there is no money in it for them, and they are businesses, not charities. Pharmaceutical companies donate huge sums of money to the media for advertising their current products that are patented and bring in royalties ( and ivermectin is not in that group). The media isn't about to bite the hand that feeds them, so they go along with about anything Pfizer or the other big companies wish.

https://www.facebook.com/ctfalconers/posts/2222548977786991

 

[Dovemaiden]

I'd be very interested to read this, if you can post the link. I subscribe to numerous journals, and the only studies I've seen about using Ivermectin for West Nile is treating birds to kill the mosquitoes to slow the transmission of the virus to animals and humans - not treating the illness directly. But that'd be great if there's more to that story.

https://www.facebook.com/ctfalconers/posts/2222548977786991

 

[Dovemaiden]

Sounds like crazy talk to me. Where is the supporting evidence for these conspiracies?..... besides Facebook, lol

Do you have family members working directly for Lederle Labs, as I do?
When you sign one other a pharmaceutical company as a long-term employee, you sign an NDA as well.
Once drugs have gone generic, the company no longer has them out on the front lines endorsing them; they go to the R & D department & find another medication to do the same job.
It doesn’t matter how well the older medication worked; it is no longer a money-maker for them, because when the patent expires, any pharm. can make and sell it. Once off-patent, a drug is no longer exclusive to that particular company.
Prozac ( fluoxetine) is an example. You no longer see ads for Prozac because it’s not exclusive to Lily anymore, so there I no point in throwing money at a generic product thru advertising which could benefit everyone else making it, too.
Sometimes it’s easy to get your new product ( & a new patent); you just “flip”the molecule, cis to trans.
Many times it fits the same docking sites, & works as well or better than the original. Sometimes it doesn’t, and the project is dropped.
If it works, it gives the company a new patent and another 8 years of substantial royalties.
We did this with”Provigil”to”Nuvigil” for example.
Or, you can take the old molecule amd add a new group to its end, if the primary molecule will still fit the docking site, and if the added group doesn’t cause a problem.
Pharmaceutical companies are a business, not a charity. The CEO’s always look at the bottom line in terms of revenue. This may be a distressing concept if someone has thought these type of businesses are altruistic.
Whether you wish to consider ivermectin has merit or not is up to you; but there is much evidence in Cell, Nature, Virology—all to be found under the Pub Med and NIH articles, all the way back to 2004.
I do understand that without the background in the industry, you may have a difficult time understanding or believing this, but there is no reason to throw out “conspiracy theory” and “crazy talk” at someone who has some different experience than you do in a specific field.
I would not have done that to you.
IF you are truly interested & would like to see evidence of this, I can most certainly provide you with examples, however, it sounds as if you already have made up your mind on the issue— and, that is alright, it is totally your prerogative to do so.
You don’t need to resort to perjorative terms to people with different opinions, however.
Though I have a Facebook account, I rarely use it, and no, that is not where I received my information on how drug companies work; I got that first-hand.
I found the ivermectin article redirecting me to the DVM on Facebook from a Falconer Site, & thought it valuable enough to pass on.
As a State and Federally licensed raptor rehabilitator, I attempt to keep abreast of such medications that may be of help in something like West Nile.

On the use of ivermectin in birds for West Nile Virus, you may wish to read this article, or not. . .

https://www.facebook.com/ctfalconers/posts/2222548977786991

 

[Dovemaiden]

I'd be very interested to read this, if you can post the link. I subscribe to numerous journals, and the only studies I've seen about using Ivermectin for West Nile is treating birds to kill the mosquitoes to slow the transmission of the virus to animals and humans - not treating the illness directly. But that'd be great if there's more to that story.

https://www.facebook.com/ctfalconers/posts/2222548977786991

 

[Dovemaiden]

I'd be very interested to read this, if you can post the link. I subscribe to numerous journals, and the only studies I've seen about using Ivermectin for West Nile is treating birds to kill the mosquitoes to slow the transmission of the virus to animals and humans - not treating the illness directly. But that'd be great if there's more to that story.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-020-0336-z

https://csuventures.org/project/ive...ntrol-west-nile-virus-transmission-to-humans/

https://journals.plos.org/plosntds/article?id=10.1371/journal.pntd.0010260

https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/934595
https://cvmbs.source.colostate.edu/...n-humans-by-mixing-ivermectin-into-bird-feed/

 

[raingarden]

I'm sure that being related to someone who works for a pharmaceutical company is your proudest achievement in life. But, the failings of Big Pharma are pretty well known at this point.

I wouldn't consider the falconers club blog as peer-reviewed literature. You have to do better than that.

Because IVM affects mosquitoes that bite treated hosts does not mean IVM affects the West Nile virus itself.

The idea of using Ivermectin to treat covid has been beat to death and there have been no comprehensive experimental studies from reputable institutions to support that claim.

River Blindness is caused by a flarial worm parasite so you would expect it to be controlled by IVM.

What else do you have?

 

[Aunt Angus]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-020-0336-z

https://csuventures.org/project/ive...ntrol-west-nile-virus-transmission-to-humans/

https://journals.plos.org/plosntds/article?id=10.1371/journal.pntd.0010260

https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/934595
https://cvmbs.source.colostate.edu/...n-humans-by-mixing-ivermectin-into-bird-feed/

Thanks for these. Other than the 1st article, which is about COVID, the others are about controlling the transmission by killing mosquitoes who ingest the blood from treated birds. Do you have any about Ivermectin actually treating West Nile? I have been searching but not finding any.

I'll see if I can find peer-reviewed info the blog is based on.