B.Y.C. Dorking Club!

[pigsflyacres]

Somewhat recently purchased two red hens and a red roo (Horstman line) as well as a SG male with a less clear background. My understanding is that one hen is a year old and everyone else is two years-old. I'd love to get more hens, but have not found any other Dorkings in Central TX that are not just from the large hatcheries. I don't care so much about things like color, but body type is really important to me.

I've seen both roosters mate, but am not seeing bullseyes on any of the eggs. Sometimes the white spot looks a bit more enlarged and faded than usual, but nothing looks defined. One hen has gone broody and is sitting on some eggs that do not look like they are developing at all (day six) when candled. All four are molting slightly...not sure if that is typical in the spring. I've heard of others having fertility issues with their Dorkings. Any tips, ideas, or suggestions to get some fluffy chicks running around?

PS. Adorable chicks Puddin!

Some one else made some good suggestions. I second the parasite protocol for both sexes. Parasites just suck fertility away. I also found that my birds did better on a game bird breeder ration that had animal protein and very little soy. Can't get it here anymore. So now I'm going to approach the game bird breeder ration as my base and give them added protein. Calf manna is also a really good supplement. If they don't have access to plenty of forage, give them greens. Sprouted oats, or softened alfalfa pellets mixed with fermented grains is the way I'm going. Alfalfa is high in Vitamin D which I think they have a greater need for.

When these birds were kept traditionally, they would forage for most of their ration, but they would also clean up after other livestock which included offal as well as spilt grain. We have commercial feeds which give them the minimum they need for health. But I think these birds need something extra to really perform well.

You may also need to consider that one of the hens doesn't like the cock bird. I've had that happen. I thought she was infertile. Nope, just liked another bird I had a Dorking hen that was giving me fertile eggs for 5 years. So if the hens are only 2, that shouldn't be the problem for them or the cock bird. Treat for parasites and adjust their feed. They'll come around.

 

[Sydney Acres]

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They shouldn't be molting and brooding at the same time. Does it look like a true molt, or is there just poor feather quality, or is it feather damage. With two males and only two hens, there's probably some fighting going on, both between the two hens and between the two roosters, which will damage the feathers. That can sometimes look like molting, except that the feathers are being broken off instead of falling out. Are there pinfeathers growing back in, or just stubs of old feathers sticking out of the skin (or broken off at the skin)? Is the feather loss equal everywhere, or is it concentrated over the back and shoulders in the hens (from roosters treading while breeding), over the top of the head and high up on the back of the neck in the hens (from roosters grabbing the head/neck while breeding), or on the throat/neck/high breast of either gender (fighting). I don't see my hens fight often, but when I do see them they rip the feathers out of each others throats with their beaks and out of their breasts with their feet. Even though I rarely see the fights, there are a few troublemakers that look ratty every breeding season -- they get hormonal and bitchy!! They are also the hens of the least quality, conformation-wise, and will be culled once they finish laying eggs this season (they are not in the breeding pool, egg layers only).

Having two competitive males can sometimes cause fertility problems, especially when there's not enough hens. The males sometimes knock each other off the hens before breeding is finished, or they're in such a hurry that there's not enough cloacal contact. I've also been told that even though we want a cinderblock, long-keeled, horizontal body shape in this breed, males that are too horizontal along the topline often have fertility issues, as they tend to have more difficulty maneuvering into the correct position for adequate contact. You might try using only one rooster instead of two to see what happens. Depending on the individual roosters, that could make a huge difference.

I definitely agree with deworming and treating for mites (whether you see any or not), with every new bird that comes to your property. After routine deworming, I like to get fecal tests done in 2 weeks and 2 months, just to be sure nothing was missed, and nothing is coming back. I like testing for contagious diseases on any bird that comes from a non-NPIP facility, as well as quarantine from my main flock for 3-4 weeks or more, regardless of NPIP origination. I'm a huge fan of name brand formulated layer pellets as a baseline diet, but then add in free range foraging, veggie scraps, anything healthy from the table or garden, free choice oyster shells, and fish scraps, which increases the overall protein level and provides balanced fatty acids from the fish oil, which does amazing things for their plumage. (If you have a mixed-age flock that has young pullets less than 18 weeks old, do not use layer pellets. Use an 18-20% protein pellet and have oyster shells available for the laying hens. The forced intake of extra calcium from the layer pellets in the young pullets can cause problems.) Also, do anything possible to reduce the stress within the flock, which is unique in each situation, but can include things such as not enough cover, not enough space, too many roosters, unpleasant individuals that bully excessively, scary dogs or other animals, no shelter from the weather, no high roosts (Dorkings love to roost in trees more than any other breed I've owned, including heritage turkeys), too many predator sightings, etc.

I personally hate trimming fluff, but do admit that it does help in some cases. The way I look at it is that Dorkings are not Cochins -- if they've got so much fluff that it interferes with breeding, maybe they're not breeding quality. But sometimes with rare breeds we can't be that picky. If you do trim fluff, trim below the vent on the male and above the vent on the female. Be careful not to trim so close that it exposes skin, which can cause picking and lead to serious injuries. And be really careful not to cut the skin -- sounds obvious, but I see people accidently do it all the time when grooming their animals.

If nothing works, the suggestion of rotating in known fertile roosters over the new hens and known fertile hens under the new roosters is an excellent way to determine fertility once and for all. Just remember that hens can retain sperm for 3-4 weeks, so don't start checking for fertility until the new birds have been with their proven fertile partners exclusively for at least a month, or the wrong mate might get the credit.

 

[Sydney Acres]

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Oh I'm so sorry. I had no way of knowing. It sounds like he was a wonderful boy, much loved and much missed. I'm glad that you got pictures of him before he passed.

 

[Sydney Acres]

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Oh, I totally forgot about Calf Manna. Love it.

It really is so important to think about how this breed was developed. What would they eat on farms in England in the 1800s? That's why I love giving them fish. In the days before commercial pellets, these birds were thrown every kitchen scrap from the farm, with lots of fish heads, skin, intestines, etc, since England is such a seafaring country. I find the commercial pellets an excellent "cheat" to be sure that I'm giving all the trace nutrients, but they just don't do well if that's all they get. I love giving them oats, but I've never tried softened alfalfa pellets. That is an excellent idea. Do you use the pellets that are sold for rabbits, or the ones for horses and let the birds tear them apart?

Love the story about the hen hating the rooster. I can see it happening. "You may be able to chase me down and jump on me, but I'll never ever move my tail aside for you!!!" That's why it's so important to observe for stress in the flock. It's different for every group.

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Thank you all for the great suggestions and input! I'll start implementing this advice immediately. What are your recommended products for treating internal and external parasites?

First the SG roo lost his saddle feathers (only fluffy/frizzy looking feathers remain), then the hens, and now the red roo. That seems to be the area most affected in all of them. I will try to post photos tomorrow.

They get a lot of veggie/fruit/meat scraps and also a lot of dried meal worms, BOSS, rolled oats, bird mix (lentils, thistle seeds, millet, etc), and oyster shell in addition to their feed and what they forage. Have some nasturtium growing in a "chicken salad bar" for them too. They haven't had any fish products though as my cat always lays claim to those!

 

[TRUE5]

Hello! New to this thread. I have a few questions about this breed. I recently got two silver Dorkings at an auction. They are so sweet, but just not handled enough to come within inches of my feet like the others. I liked them enough that I had been given some very VERY nice Dorking eggs. I was told that these are the best this breeder had seen. I'm sure my daughter will want to show them but I was thinking of picking up a breed and starting to breed them. My questions are, are the roos docile? I have children and don't want them getting flogged. How hard is it to find a good quality breeder? I will need to find an unrelated rooster (probably just hatch out one myself) so I didn't know who you all would recommend. Any ways, I am starting to research and see if this is the bred for me. I am already starting to raise SFH to breed as a hobby but I would really love to find a heritage breed to work with and help add to the numbers in the U.S. with ones that are SOP quality.

 

[Sydney Acres]

Hello! New to this thread. I have a few questions about this breed. I recently got two silver Dorkings at an auction. They are so sweet, but just not handled enough to come within inches of my feet like the others. I liked them enough that I had been given some very VERY nice Dorking eggs. I was told that these are the best this breeder had seen. I'm sure my daughter will want to show them but I was thinking of picking up a breed and starting to breed them. My questions are, are the roos docile? I have children and don't want them getting flogged. How hard is it to find a good quality breeder? I will need to find an unrelated rooster (probably just hatch out one myself) so I didn't know who you all would recommend. Any ways, I am starting to research and see if this is the bred for me. I am already starting to raise SFH to breed as a hobby but I would really love to find a heritage breed to work with and help add to the numbers in the U.S. with ones that are SOP quality.

In general the roosters are very docile, but not always. There are some lines that are more aggressive than others, so you'll have to see how yours develop. Mine are a bit aggressive during breeding season and sweet during the rest of the year, but I have reds from a line with that reputation. Most are incredibly sweet year round.

Breeders are few and far between. The Silver Grey is the most common color in the U.S., so you will find a few hatcheries that sell them and more breeders than the other colors. But very few approach show quality, and possibly none are close enough to the SOP to compete for Best of Class at a large show. So the breed needs more people who would like to select for SOP quality. I hope you aren't discouraged by the difficulty in finding birds, as they're a wonderful breed. Here's a link to an ad for Silver Greys listed through the Dorking Breeders Club. I'm not positive, but I think these birds may have originated from Rudy Troxel's flock, and if so they're probably top notch: http://dorkingbreedersclub.webs.com...p-quality-silver-gray-dorking-chicks-for-sale.

Welcome to Dorkings. They are addicting! As you read back through this thread, you'll find more leads to more breeders also.

 

[Sydney Acres]

Thank you all for the great suggestions and input! I'll start implementing this advice immediately. What are your recommended products for treating internal and external parasites?

First the SG roo lost his saddle feathers (only fluffy/frizzy looking feathers remain), then the hens, and now the red roo. That seems to be the area most affected in all of them. I will try to post photos tomorrow.

They get a lot of veggie/fruit/meat scraps and also a lot of dried meal worms, BOSS, rolled oats, bird mix (lentils, thistle seeds, millet, etc), and oyster shell in addition to their feed and what they forage. Have some nasturtium growing in a "chicken salad bar" for them too. They haven't had any fish products though as my cat always lays claim to those!

Depending on what diet they were on before you got them, and how long you've had them, they may be going through a true molt because you're improving things so much. It's unusual, but I've seen some birds, dogs, cats, and horses do this. You rescue them, give them great care, think that they're coming along well, then all of a sudden all their hair/feathers fall out. But then this beautiful replacement coat/plumage grows in, and you realize that they finally got enough nutrients to provide the right body coverage, so they just dropped out the poor quality stuff and replaced it with something better.

For newly incoming birds for external parasites, I use permethrin poultry dust. I hate it, but it always works. There are other, less potent products available, but there's times when you need it to be done thoroughly.

There are a lot of options for internal parasite control, and rotating products over the seasons is often a good idea. I usually start with fenbendazole, which is very broad spectrum, or albendazole (very similar, and somewhat more broad spectrum), and alternate with ivermectin. But those drugs are more difficult to use than many others, as each bird has to be individually dosed based on weight. All my birds are tame, and I keep track of their weights regularly, so it's easy for me. Most people use products in the water, which is much easier. Those would be available at your local farm store, and would (hopefully) be adequate to control the most common parasites in your area (which might be different in different areas of the country). I'm not adequately familiar with those products to recommend a specific one. Whatever you use, be sure to consider the withdrawal times for eggs and meat. When using products that are not labelled for chickens (like I do), it is difficult to find withdrawal times, and they are always unofficial. If a person choses to ignore them in their own personal consumption, that is a personal choice, but it would be unethical to sell or give away products if withdrawal times are ignored. If withdrawal times cannot be found for a particular product, the time most people use is 60 days.

If your cat is getting the fish out from under your chickens, then either your chickens are shy or your cat is very brave. All my chickens have the cats bullied. Honestly, I'd be terrified of a chicken that was threatening me if it were also as big as me.

 

[caj1985]

Quick question for experienced Dorking breeders: I have recently hatched some Red Dorkings that came from the Tice/Troxel line. Of the 11 chicks that hatched about 3 weeks ago, 2 are obviously MUCH smaller than the others. Should I wait and give these the chance to possibly catch up or go ahead and cull now under the assumption that at 1/2 the size of the others these are obviously low vigor/slow growers that shouldn't even be considered as future breeders?

 

[pysankigirl]

Some of you know Craig Russell. He is into Dorkings and is the president of the SPPA ( Society for the Preservation of Poultry Antiques?)
He also does Wild foods seminars and will be doing one this weekend down in Wytheville that I’m seriously considering going to (but have to work out the logistics…it’s a 3+ hour drive if the traffic light gods are kind.)
I know a lot of chicken folks are down in that area and the seminar is only $25 (to learn how to find food in the wild and how to cook it!!!) pm me for contact info if you are interested!