Backyard Brahmas!!

[bumpercarr]

Seeing how I was the cause of the recent unpleasantness and guessing that A1mom might not read this thread again anytime soon I PM'ed her, and explained the rational behind my position on the subject. With the education of other new comers I thought I'd go ahead and post parts of that message here as well.


[ I have been on a crusade as it were, to educate people on proper color and pattern names, mostly as a result of some folks crossing up breeds and then trying to hang a fanciful name on them to promate sales of their new "creation".

The use of red and lemon pyle names is commonly misused in Europe, and they use the name on a couple different patterns. A true pyle colored bird contains dominant white, which in effect turns all parts of the feather that would normally be black to white. Being a dominant trait, it only takes one copy of the gene to show itself in a bird. Recessive white on the other hand requires two copies to show, and turns the entire bird white.

What in fact the so called pyles in the Brahma breed, or so far as I know, are actually splash phase blue birds of either partridge(penciled), or columbian, patterns. You see blue is a diluter of black, A single copy of blue dilutes the black parts of a feather to a bluish grey color, If a bird receives two copies of blue those same parts are a washed out white, with possible specs of blue.

While pyle and splash may look similar at first glance, the are two very different colors.

One way to test which you have is breed it to a black patterned bird. If the resulting chicks are white trimmed,(if the pyle parent carries two copies of dominant white), or half white, and half black trimmed,(if pyle parent carries only one copy of dominant white), then you in fact have a pyle. But if breeding your pyle to a black gets you blue chicks then it is a splash, and should be called such.]

I have a question (or maybe two?) So, if the pyle is a dominant white, you can't get that from breeding two splash. You would have to bring in a pyle from another breed....providing that you could find a true pyle somewhere. And, you would only need one of the parents to be pyle, because it is dominant, the offspring would also be pyle? Is that correct? And I see lemon pyle referred to frequently, but I don't really know what the color combination of that would be....maybe buff, red or gold (wildtype)?

 

[big medicine]

Animal House...love that movie!

Thanks for the picture. Now when I reread what you wrote it makes more sense.
So knowing that the European 'lemon pyle' is pretty popular (I've seen lots of pics of them lately), what would be the proper label for that color? Lemon or red splash??

See that's part of my problem with the way they sling the term around over there. I have seen the term lemon pyle used on splash buff in both columbian, and penciled patterns. I wonder if they had single, or double laced patterns in a red/gold/buff based splash phased blue they would also be lumped in as generic pyles, regardless of pattern ?

Yeah I know I just lost a bunch of people with that last rambling. To my mind this would be the equivalent of calling all silver penciled(dark Brahmas), silver Columbian(light Brahmas) silver single laced(like my birds, or wyandottes), and silver double laced(silver Barnvelders), and lumping them together and referring to them as barred.

Back to the question, I would depend first of all in what pattern the coloring is arranged. Then I guess I would delineate what shade the gold base color is, could be red, more likely gold, or possibly buff. Then there are some variations influenced by some color restrictors that I do not have experience with they call champagne blonde. And then splash would be part of the description as well.

 

[bamadude]

X2

 

[big medicine]

I have a question (or maybe two?) So, if the pyle is a dominant white, you can't get that from breeding two splash. You would have to bring in a pyle from another breed....providing that you could find a true pyle somewhere. And, you would only need one of the parents to be pyle, because it is dominant, the offspring would also be pyle? Is that correct? And I see lemon pyle referred to frequently, but I don't really know what the color combination of that would be....maybe buff, red or gold (wildtype)?

Right, you could not get true pyle(dominant white) from breeding anything that did not include at least one parent showing dominant white. Now that dominant white pyle parent could possibly also be hiding splash beneath that dominant white. I know when Dan Powell was developing his Buff Laced Brahmas he was trying to include blue/splash under the dominant white with the thought it would help clean up the "whiteness" of their lacing.

A true red pyle is a black breasted red, (again Old English Game).


with dominant white added.


If you wanted to build the equivalent on a Brahma canvas, You would have to at least bring in dominant white, buff laced Brahmas carry it. And then work out the pattern. (Or apparently not if you are in the UK.)

 

[bumpercarr]

Right, you could not get true pyle(dominant white) from breeding anything that did not include at least one parent showing dominant white. Now that dominant white pyle parent could possibly also be hiding splash beneath that dominant white. I know when Dan Powell was developing his Buff Laced Brahmas he was trying to include blue/splash under the dominant white with the thought it would help clean up the "whiteness" of their lacing.

A true red pyle is a black breasted red, (again Old English Game).


with dominant white added.


If you wanted to build the equivalent on a Brahma canvas, You would have to at least bring in dominant white, buff laced Brahmas carry it. And then work out the pattern. (Or apparently not if you are in the UK.)

Thanks! Not interested in creating it, just curious. I have enough projects and have my hands full with those....

 

[bamadude]

Im just gonna x2 everytime. (Im lost tho) dang chicken astro physics got my head hurting. One day when i learn more about the genetics i will come back to those posts and learn. In the mean time

 

[Huntress78]

Quote:
Sorry I didn't make myself clear...I have a bad habit of expecting people to just know what I'm thinking.lol
I was referring to Mitchell123's pictures in post #2419. Birds similar to these are what I've been seeing called lemon pyle.

I do like some of these colors even though I've yet to see them on a bird that gives me the warm, fuzzy Brahma type feeling. I guess they are what they are and if no one works (type wise) with them it's what they'll stay.Champagne blonde...is that anything like Isobel...restrictor maybe lavender? Trying to figure out what the colors really are makes my head hurt sometimes.

 

[Huntress78]

Im just gonna x2 everytime. (Im lost tho) dang chicken astro physics got my head hurting. One day when i learn more about the genetics i will come back to those posts and learn. In the mean time

Very cute! I wish I could hatch this late in the year...all mine are in that ugly stage.

 

[daisyklapper]

Ok so I have some brahmas. I'm starting to think they are all boys. What a sure fire sign other then crowing?

 

[Sjisty]

Ok so I have some brahmas. I'm starting to think they are all boys. What a sure fire sign other then crowing?

What kind are they? Darks are pretty easy to sex, buffs less easy but it can be done. The lights are the hardest to sex when young, in my opinion. Can you post pictures?