Barn Trouble (Horse People Please Post) -Update on Page 6-

[geebs]

You can always tell the old fart that you are leaving because of his "unsolicited advice"... Whether you are right or wrong or he is right or wrong.....It is subjective.. Sounds to me like he is a lonely old has been that is afraid of his own horses so he talks out his backend...

Ride whatever discipline suits you... I am an old dog but I would not use my experience as a tool to beat someone over the head with... I knew a gal that kept a horse and measured and wieghed the horse and brushed it every day... She was really weird about every aspect of the care of this mean rotten horse... When the horse got cancer... She got the chemo done... She NEVER rode it... She might sit on it in the stall once in a while... She was a nerotic mess... But this taught me..... She loved her horse andher time with it....That was all... it is that simple.... She enjoyed it.... Enjoy yours It is no ones place to say how where or why we should do what we do....My love for my horse is no greater or less great than yours... Ride Wenglish if you want to... I hope you live long enough to ride all disciplines..that is my goal. Good luck cyberfriend.

The old fogey is probably lonely... You do owe it to both of you to write him a kind letter letting him know that the reason for your departure was that he constantly hurt your feelings by making you feel like less. This may reach him... His loneliness will only increase as he separates himself from ppl... You may find that the best worded letter may solve your problem....He may be completely unaware of how hurt you are... I will watch this post to see what happens next...

Happy trails and keep the leather side up!!!

 

[duckluck]

Go board somewhere else. When the hobby ceases to be fun, which this definitely sounds like it to me, it's time to change things around. I've told people this myself: I am spending MY money, MY vacation days and MY spare time doing the animal hobby, and I'm not going to go anywhere to spend money and be miserable for it. The best way to impress on him is to make it the highway rather than his way; hitting someone in the wallet makes the biggest impression. Maybe he'll keep his mouth shut the next time he takes a boarder, if anyone will go there after you leave.

 

[sourland]

Just went back to your original post. I bet everyone can figure out why you are the only boarder at this barn. The grouch has run everyone else away.

 

[welsummerchicks]

Relationships are like buckets of poo. Every time something goes wrong, we put more poo in the bucket. Pretty soon, you have a bucket full of poo. And you can't empty out the bucket and start over, you have to move. You can't change some relationships, and you can even less often change how you think of someone if too many buckets of poo have been filled up. Once it's soured, it's soured; leave.

First off, riders just pick on each other. They just do. Western picks on Hunt Seat, Hunt seat picks on dressage, saddle seat picks on someone...it goes on for the last 50 years, as far as I can tell, it will keep on.


Move.

You 'respect him' but you know, and he knows, that it upsets you. It's like poking a bug with a stick. It's fun.

He clearly is enjoying it.

About the two year old. By the time it's 4, there is not a horse alive that hasn't kicked SOMEONE. If he got it in the chest with two feet, he obviously was standing where he should not, and probably doing something he should not. You don't mention the two year old has ever hurt you. It's just a pain to put it in its stall. And it's a difference of opinion in how to run a barn.

Basically, you've paid this man for four years, to do little more than pick on you. He is, essentially, being paid to hassle you. Part of it is the Barn King thing, just enjoying picking on people who won't fight back because they don't want to have to move out.

Too, a lot of men from his generation and even younger men from the same culture, picking on women is what they do. They don't think of women as 100% a human being. It's OK to get them mad. Because they can't fight back, because they're women. And it really is a kind of flirting, putting women down, teasing them, picking on what they do and what is important to them.

We ARE, pretty much, in control of how much misery we are in.

On knowing more than him or being a better (or good enough) rider. Even if you won the Olympics in 2008, there would be someone better there to beat you in 2012. There's no point in trying to prove who is better, even just debating in your own mind. There will ALWAYS be someone who can teach lead changes better than you, who is braver, who is jumping higher. That is just how riding is.

Furthermore, I don't think it has any thing to do with 'respecting your way of doing things'. It doesn't even have anything to do with riding. You could talk with him about chickens and have the same problem. It's what the relationship is; it has nothing to do with you riding English. If you were a Western Barrel racer, he would do the same thing.

Good, you're leaving, but I also think that eventually, you will have to find a way to deal with this, because at the next barn or the next, someone else will crop up who does this, because pretty much, there are a lot of people like this.

It's very, very important not to be too sensitive. Don't take things to heart too much, and don't read into what people say that they are trying to say something about you or trying to snub you. Don't assume people are being deliberately mean.

A lot of times, people are just stupid. They aren't TRYING to be mean at all. Sometimes they are just very stupid. Like the gal visiting one barn who blurted out really loud, 'THAT HORSE LOOKS LAME'. She had never seen a horse canter before. She thought the horse was lame(it was a really good canter). The owner was really really insulted because to her, it suggested she was abusive and would saddle and work a horse hard when she knew it was hurting. But the girl who said it had really NO idea what it even meant to say a horse was LAME. She didn't even really know what LAME meant. She later told us that she had heard that if a horse is lame you have to shoot it, but she didn't believe that was always needed.

I OF COURSE, went all Larry the Cable Guy on her, and said, 'My sister had a horse that was lame, so I shot him. If he isn't better by next week, I'm gonna have to shoot him again! Helps with the healin' process, I heard!' (no one seems to understand my sense of humor).

There are a lot of them. I had one person tell me it was abusive for me to braid my horse's mane for a show. I had another person get furious with me and refuse to speak to me because he saw my horse getting shod. Another person gave me a lecture and said I was abusive because I had my horse in a certain brand (yes brand) of bridle. Another that insisted that riding in a ring was abusive. One lady went to the show management to complain because someone cantered a horse longer than TWO minutes. One lady complained to the Police that a lady left a fly mask on a horse in September and that's abusive and cruel (vet's orders, treatment for uveitis).

ANOTHER story I heard, a lady called the police on her neighbor because his horses were, as she put it, 'on fire'. They had a little snow on their backs and when the sun came out it steamed off. She thought they were burning. Before that, she had called police to say the horses were 'cold'. How did she know? 'They look cold'. They were Belgian Draft horses with six inch long plush, thick hair coats, had been out every winter of their lives, and had tons of hay to eat (hay keeps horses warm).

And as a dressage rider, I CONSTANTLY have people saying FAR FAR WORSE things to me than your old barrel racer EVER did! Grow a little thicker skin, and stop taking so much to heart.

Someone once put together advice on how to survive boarding a horse, I won't remember all of the points, but I can recall a couple - Keep a low profile at the barn. Don't share a lot of private worries, don't seek approval or encouragement, or advice, don't discuss problems with your riding with anyone except your instructor. Don't participate in or start any talk about someone else, don't even stand around while it's going on. Do your thing, and stay moving and stay busy, get done and leave.

 

[Tinted]

I went to see the first barn today and it has a gorgeous 140 acres of trails, ponds, fields, an indoor and outdoor riding area, and huge stalls with outdoor runs. Just a lovely place; with a friendly and down home owner who really just gives you the rules and lets you do what the heck you want. I got really good first vibes from everyone there. I really liked the entire property other than one thing…the fencing. It was 4 strands of no barbed metal wire, with electric only in some places. Which can be overlooked seeing as how there are two 25 acre pastures, and the entire property is fenced and has a security gate so even if a horse did get out they would remain on the property. My gelding is very “fence shy” anyway so I doubt it would be an issue, and everything else about the property is perfect for training and schooling and just enjoying my horse. I believe this is where I will go BUT I have one more barn to look at.

The barn I go to see tomorrow is owned by a schoolmate of mines family…though I should note that I don’t think said schoolmate likes me very much. My horse would not have a stall, which is a HUGE drawback seeing as how he attracts rain rot like poop attracts flies (and I am a crazy woman given grooming tools so he is most definitely kept well groomed); but from the sounds of things they have amazing pastures with much better fencing. He would also do all the basic care of my horse and I asked today if he would drop the price any if I did all chores for my horse and he kindly refused.

So I have to decide between worry free constant care and near perfect setup with great (so far) people.

@ Welsummerchicks: I disagree with nearly everything you said and had written a hefty post about it but decided that everyone can interpret this as they see fit and I will not say a word against anyone’s opinion on here as I want free and flowing opinions.

ETA: Also the 140 acre stable is only 15 minutes from my school, so I could drive up early to feed and water in the mornings before school, which is AWESOME!

 

[babyblue]

welsummerchicks... there is plenty wrong with many things you posted. however what really annoyed me about your post was telling everyone that all horses WILL kick some one in their lives, let alone by the time they are 4. my 20 year old gelding has never kicked or bit a human in his life, another horse, a cow or two and the annoying neighbor dogs have gotten into it with him and lost. but a sane horse that is properly raised and trained from the day its born IS NOT DESTINED TO KICK. I live down the road from the women who bred my horse, we are good friends and come to think of it, my horses mamma lived till her late 20s and never bit or kicked a human. two of my horses brothers I can be positive have never bit or kicked a human. not even a nudge or a Im gonna hold my foot up and think about it. the rest of his siblings I don’t have daily contact with so I don’t know. sure accidents happen, and absolutely they can happen with wild untrained animals. but to say every horse will kick is off your rocker.

 

[welsummerchicks]

'disagree with everything you said'

Well, that's ok. Sounds like you're taking it in a way it was not at all intended, but I won't attempt to argue with you about it.

It does seem like you have made the right choice (to move). I do believe that thing about how relationships simply sour sometimes and there's no repairing them. Especially when someone is being victimized, it's usually impossible to change a relationship from aggressor-victim to equal-equal.

Most of us have had to leave a barn sometime. Even a verbal agreement to give notice can be binding in court, so often I see people will pay on the 1st of the month and then pull out immediately, and pay for their new barn that month too. It can be a way to get a deposit back (and some barns want two months' board as their deposit) and avoid worry about if the horse will be mistreated, but of course it's expensive. A lot of people seem to feel it's preferable to leaving any opportunity for the barn owner to complain to others.

I have been around boarding barns, horses and horse people for about fifty years now. Everything from hippies to cowboys to international trainers, backyard barns to some really nice facilities. And I know that in most places, barn survival skills do come in handy. I had to learn to have a thick skin too, and it was not easy.

welsummerchicks... there is plenty wrong with many things you posted. however what really annoyed me about your post was telling everyone that all horses WILL kick some one in their lives, let alone by the time they are 4. my 20 year old gelding has never kicked or bit a human in his life, another horse, a cow or two and the annoying neighbor dogs have gotten into it with him and lost. but a sane horse that is properly raised and trained from the day its born IS NOT DESTINED TO KICK. I live down the road from the women who bred my horse, we are good friends and come to think of it, my horses mamma lived till her late 20s and never bit or kicked a human. two of my horses brothers I can be positive have never bit or kicked a human. not even a nudge or a Im gonna hold my foot up and think about it. the rest of his siblings I don’t have daily contact with so I don’t know. sure accidents happen, and absolutely they can happen with wild untrained animals. but to say every horse will kick is off your rocker.

The old saying is that the only horse that won't kick is a dead horse sounds kind of harsh to modern ears, but I believe that it is pretty much true. When I am around horses, I assume they COULD kick, no matter how sweet, gentle and well trained they are, and I stay out of the line of fire.

A friend of mine was hand grazing her horse. He was a very, very gentle animal, and had always been very easy to deal with, was about 3. A horse fly bit him, he spun around. She got kicked in the elbow. 3 surgeries later she still did not have normal motion in her arm. This is a perfectly nice horse, not a mean bone in his body. Sometimes things go wrong.

When I was young, I worked on a number of large breeding farms -mostly race horses, but other breeds as well, and my experience has been, babies kick, in general.

I'm sure there's one from time to time that doesn't ever even lift a foot to anyone, but most I'd say, they do kick. Not that they connect, hurt or maim. One place I worked had 50 colts and 50 fillies born a year. They kicked, they reared, they pulled, and they learned not to do these things through training. I must say the colts were much more so than the fillies. Sometimes the two year olds were a lot more difficult to handle than the weanlings or yearlings.

My friend had a very, very quiet young mare she often rode bareback over to our place with a halter, on the road (a quiet subdivision road). One day, she took piece of paper and opened it up, and it scared the horse, and she fell off and got kicked. That was the sweetest most darling quiet mare. And very well bred.

One trainer I know was teaching a clinic, she got kicked in the cheekbone. That was a quiet old horse that had never done anything like that. She is permanently in pain, the nerve in her face got damaged.

These were not mean or bad animals, not in the least. They were just young, untrained, or startled. Just like a foal that doesn't realize a fence is a barrier. They just don't know anything. Patient, firm, consistent, non brutal non abusive training, repetition, familiariizing them with things that frighten them and caused them to react, or they just try to play with a human like they would another horse. That was my job and there were older workers who were in vet school as well. And all of us went home bruised, scraped, bumped and usually very, very happy. Because horses do learn quickly and it's fun despite the mishaps.

And like the other lady, I say that's just fine if you think I'm wrong, stupid, etc. That's your perogative. I won't stoop to insulting you like you insulted me, though.

You will see it the way you want to see it....your experiences have been different from mine. I've been around a lot of babies and young horses.

I pretty much assume a horse could kick, and as the old gal I first learned from always said, 'ALL HORSES KICK'. Not that literally, every single horse that ever lived, swung at a human and maimed or killed one. But this - that she wanted us to behave, position ourselves, and proceed, AS IF all horses kick, and think to ourselves always, all horses kick.

And I do. And unlike many horse people I know, in 50 yrs, I have never been severely kicked (knock on wood) because of how this lady taught us to position ourselves.

But the kindest, sweetest horse I ever knew, the one my friend called 'born twenty two years old', even he kicked once as a youngster. Something startled him, he spun round and kicked out without thinking. His hoof barely brushed my leg. Whatever scared him, scared him to death. He would start to breathe faster and look around every time he passed by there. I spent a lot of time, patting on him, working around him, talking to him, rubbing him with a rag, with blankets, etc. Again, not a mean bone in his body, just a mistake.

Even my sweet old retired horse, his vision is going, and occasionally he gets startled, and he is a big boy, we are careful around him. We arrange things so he has his routine. My spouse takes him for walks, but only in a familiar small area. The two old men together, LOL.

 

[SpringChickens]

Tinted,

I think your new barn sounds much nicer than your old one. I wish you much luck there!!

 

[greathorse]

My father was a great horseman who worked with some very rank horses. In all the years of training and handling horses some of which were awesome and many of which started out pretty rank, none of us were ever badly injured.

My father was emphatic that we handled all horses as though they could or would kick or strike no matter how good they were. I credit him for the fact that I have worked with so many horses and have never had a bad injury.

I have by the way owned plenty of horses that never kicked anyone that I know about or knew about, and I raised many from foals. On the other hand I have had plenty that made an effort to kick or strike that didnt hurt me because of what my father taught me

 

[welsummerchicks]

It must have been great to be around an old time horseman like that. The woman I took lessons from when I was young was like that. That's the way she taught us - to always proceed as if you could be kicked.