Beefing up a scrawny collie

[Tracydr]

Quote:
I would feed a raw prey diet. No veggies, no grains. It helped my dogs lose and gain weight, depending on what they needed.
You can find more about it at dogfoodchat.com. It's basically 80% muscle meat, 10% organs with %5 of the organ being liver and %10 bones. It's very easy and many areas have raw coops so that buying the meat is cheaper.
So, for example, my dogs will have pork shoulder, beef heart, a chicken or turkey neck day with bone, then a liver or spleen day. I try to make a majority of their muscle meat red meat which means they get a lot of beef/pork heart or pork, both cheap and healthy meats. Depending on the dog, I feed between 2-5% of their weight per day in one or two meals. Very easy to get them to eat enough because they love almost everything I feed them. Plus, it takes a little longer to eat, especially if they have a bone day or something complicated like the meat on a beef rib. ( I take the rib bone away after the meat is stripped because beef bones can crack teeth)
My dogs have done great. I have a Doberman, chihuahua and papillon. My chihuahua started raw when he had a terrible hepatitis and nearly died, he is nearly 14 years old and now his blood work is totally normal. Plus, he wasn't able to jump on the couch before and now he can.

 

[Mudsow]

You could try probiotics added to his diet, they will help him to utilize any food he eats.
But honestly an unaltered male dog will be lean with muscle.
I have belgian sheepdogs, basically the same kind of build. There will be days that they don't eat, and days they're famished. I don't worry, I figure they regulate themselves. They are not "skinny" but by most people's standards they are thin. But most people have "fat" dogs, And worry if their dog doesn't eat 3 meals a day. Dogs aren't people and male dogs always have something else on their minds ;-)

I have golden retriever girls as well, and they will eat until they burst.

Probiotics, and time, but I suggest to re-think if he truly is "skinny" or just lean. He may be perfectly fine.

 

[EweSheep]

We have one collie that Lad was just a lanky kid! No matter what you do, he simply can not gain the weight! Just lanky like a TB!

 

[Eyeheartquail]

He is adolescent. I would bet MONEY on him gaining more weight by age 3. I firmly believe in the Raw prey model diet. I would like to hear from this vet and scientist that have PROVEN it wrong. It sure would be news to me.

 

[dainerra]

Quote:
My vet is a huge supporter of raw. He even sells pre-made raw at his office. The problem is that most vets only see the aftermath of a bad raw diet - people who feed only hamburger, no bone, no variety, no organ meat. Or 6 months straight of only chicken backs. My vet had a client who did this! Of course that isn't healthy, but that is what a large portion of the general public thinks a raw diet is.
On another forum, I even heard of people trying to feed nothing but veggies because they were vegan and wanted thei pets to be too.

I agree that the collie is PROBABLY not too thin. I can't say for sure by the pictures, but without other medical issues I've never met a too skinny dog. Fasting is even part of the animal kingdom, so I never worry when my boys eat a little less for a day or so. Even people do it! Add in the fact that 90% of the dogs (and people!) In America are obese, and a healthy dog is going to look too small.

 

[Eyeheartquail]

I understand when a vet is uneducated on raw or may scoff at it due to the negative cases they have been dealt, but scientists? Scientists, really? If that is the case I missed the news lettter. I was unaware that any studies on the prey model diet have been documented. Is it possible that Sylverfly fabricated this story based on their own opinion?

 

[kari_dawn]

My dog gets free choice food at all times (he is hypoglycemic, if his sugar drops, he has a siezure). He keeps himself on the light side too...I would not worry too much about him, but if you do want to try raw (I feed a partially raw diet), it may do wonders for him. Just make sure just like others have said, that if you do go raw, make sure it's a complete diet

 

[SillyChicken]

I have a mastiff at home that... no matter how much food she gets, she's always rail thin. Just the way she is. Your dog is young yet, give him time. If you still have problems, look up satin balls. They're great for brining weight up or encouraging appitite.

 

[Sylverfly]

Dear Eyeheartquail Everyone is entitled to their own opinions especially when they are based on some fact. I find it incredibly insulting that you would call me a liar insisting that I would fabricate stories to support my point of view.
I cannot point you to the exact study that I was quoting and I did slightly misspeak dogs are indeed indifferent omnivores with no natural preferences mostly thanks to living with man and eating what was thrown to them and scrounged up around the encampment.
Facts I can give you: vegetable proteins, carbohydrates and fats are all very digestible by dogs Hegsted et al. (1947) found that the apparent digestibility of proteins in an all vegetable diet containing white bread, corn, rice, potatoes, lettuce, carrots, onions, tomatoes and applesauce was 80% digestible. Kendall and Holme (1982) reported the apparent crude protein (Nx6.25) digestibility coefficients for textured soy protein, extracted soy meal, full-fat soy flour, and micronized whole soybeans ranged from 71 to 87 % Clapper et al. (2001) compared the canine digestibility of five soybean protein sources to that of poultry meal, and found the soy protein to offer a viable protein source. They stated, "Soy protein, when combined with other protein sources that contain complementary amino acids, can provide an economical source of highly available and consistent-quality protein to the canine." The digestive tracts of animals give clues as to what kind of diet they can eat. The shorter the length of small intestine, the less capable the animals are of digesting plant materials. Herbivores have very complex and long digestive tracts, whereas humans have somewhat simpler and shorter digestive tracts. If you compare the length of the small intestine in cats (obligate carnivores) with that of a dog, the dog’s small intestine is longer relative to the animal’s body length (4:1 intestine/body length ratio in cats, 6:1 in dogs). Based on digestive system anatomy, and plant digestibility, it would seem that dogs are adapted to eat a diet that includes vegetable material.
The next issue is amylase, the enzyme that digests starch. Grains are mostly starch, so an animal would need to make amylase if it is going to digest starch. People have amylase in their saliva, so starch digestion begins when you chew your food. Dogs, like cats, don’t have amylase in their saliva. But this ignores the fact that dogs secrete large amounts of amylase from their pancreas. Since meat doesn’t contain starch, why would dogs need to make amylase in their pancreas? Obviously because they are equipped to eat and digest plant-derived starches. “are dogs carnivores?” is - taxonomically yes, dietarily no. Dogs not only can be healthy on a diet consisting of meat, grains and vegetables, they will do exceptionally well on one.

 

[Jamie_Dog_Trainer]

I didn't take what Sylverfly as quoting a study. I have heard several Vets say they "know" RAW diets are unhealthy. While they didn't state a specific study, they, being the medical professional they are, tend to give opinions sometimes on rudimentary knowledge. They do this quite often with training and behavior information.

Edit for poor spelling.