Best way to kill cats? *Yeah I think the cats could have done it*

[speckledhen]

Quote: Delawaremommy, I thank you for the offer, but I'm in Georgia.

 

[callieisspooky]

Just some thoughts on trapping - with an entire colony, it will be near to impossible to get all the cats with traps, unless you put out many traps at once. Cats are smart, and learn quickly after watching another be trapped to avoid the traps.

 

[hdmax]

One full grown cat most certainly can take a duck, turkey or chicken. I spent 20 years working construction, and several times a year we'd witness a cat killing geese, and ducks. These were full sized birds. The cats would spent 10 minutes or more sneaking through the weeds. They do this for practice, not because they need food.

 

[hdmax]

It seems to me that many here is putting the blame on the owner of the ducks! Regardless if you own 1/4 acre, or thousands of acres, you have a right to protect your livestock, and no you are not required to build Fort Knox to protect them in.
If it's the neighbors pet, or a wild animal killing the ducks, the owner has the right to protect them, fenced or not as long as the owners livestock in on said land.
I don't understand the thinking here that just because a duck can't be carried off by a cat, then it can't kill a duck. That is bull, cats kill for the fun, plain and simple! I've seen them kill animals 2-3 times their size, just to keep in practice.

 

[War Chicken]

http://www.ianrpubs.unl.edu/epublic/live/ec1781/build/ec1781.pdf

http://icwdm.org/handbook/carnivor/FeralHouseCat.asp

 

[bluegrasslady]

I had feral cats take over a hundred dollars worth of chicks this year over the course of a week. Caught them in the act. Reinforced the grow out pen seven ways to Sunday, thought I had it licked. Came home to a wee kitty eating my last gold laced polish chick. One dish of antifreeze, one night, no more cats. There were three by the way. Wish I would have done it sooner. I am now unable to obtain any more gl polish until spring, which puts me a year behind on that project.

 

[chooks4life]

Just wanted to offer my .02. For the record, I totally support the animal keeper's need to keep their animals safe, and also the inverse which is the animal keeper's need to keep other animals safe from their animals. I prefer the least painful and distressing methods possible but unfortunately they are not always possible. Personally I would never use poison though, but I'm not here to judge those who do. If poison is used, best for it to be a very quickly eliminated one that doesn't linger on for generations and which is potent and kills the first time, every time. Non target animals will possibly die, including pets or livestock, but these are risks inherent in using poisons.

I have been breeding good self defense mechanisms and traits into my livestock animals for a while now, since any animal that sits in the paddock being easy game is wasting my time. I need them to be able to run or fly or attack as necessary, and to have the weapons, attitude and aptitude to do so; also I gear their environment in such a way as to ensure they have the advantage. For geese, that's living on a sloped paddock that has a dam at the lowest point, and no obstructions. If attacked up the top of the paddock they will take flight and land in the dam. Just as an example. If they ranged a wooded level field they'd be easy game.

I'm pretty experienced with feral cats, having lived for years in the midst of a colony exceeding 100 at one point. I've also had pet cats since I was a kid. A few people here don't seem to think a cat can carry off or kill a fully grown duck. I assure you, they can. Most cats lack the desire, but that doesn't mean they won't if hungry or brave enough. So I do believe it's logical for the OP to view the cats with suspicion.

Also, the trap-neuter-release thing I'm not sure about the worth of. An outright cull would be better. People say it leads to the cat "holding the space" --- not in my experience, it doesn't. (But if anyone has proof of that claim I'd be happy to see it). We see even in chickens how very important breeding viability tends to be for an animal's status and subsequent control of resources.

From my experience, desexed cats lose status immediately, and become viewed (and treated) as cripples by the majority of entire cats. A cat's entire endocrinal system in functioning order holds a strong influence over its ability to gain and defend a territory. The gonads of both genders are a part of this.

An adult cat's breeding status bears huge influence in its ability to hold a territory and therefore gain a steady feed supply. It cannot compete with non desexed ferals, and automatically the majority of desexed males and females will lose status and territory; they then assume the status of juveniles or old or crippled cats, and it's hard for them to survive. Once the entire cats smell that the desexed cat's scent markings no longer declare its viability, they move in on it, fight, and if able to they displace the desexed cat to a lower grade territory where it will often suffer for lack of food. In my opinion it's kinder to cull it rather than waste money on neutering.
Quote: Our cats used to kill and carry off wild rabbits twice their size. Cats have no problem killing and carrying prey up to twice their weight. They are incredibly efficient and powerful predators. Around here (Australia) they are known to take goat kids, wallabies, adult geese, lambs, etc, and basically anything they can get hold of. Some ferals around here also chew through chicken wire without an issue.

I lived for a while near a pig and duck farmer. He had large ducks in a fenced enclosure and we suspected one of our cats was paying them visits, so we caged the cat. There was never any proof of an attack and he'd always been a good rodent killer, not bird killer, but we saw him watching them too closely and took what we thought were pre-emptive measures. They would have weighed more than him, but he'd killed things his own size or larger before, and carried them off, so we made sure he wasn't loose to attack someone's livestock. When cats stare at animals they tend to mean something by it. If these cats are spotted watching the livestock I would assume at least one has had a go at them.
Quote: Cats don't bother crows for the same reason they don't bother tiny willy-wagtails --- the bird tends to be too clever for the cat to catch. Willy wagtails will spend a long time tormenting any cat stupid enough to try to catch them, until the cat is so resigned that the bird can stand an inch from its face in smug safety, and even walk on it. The bird's glee and confidence is palpable. They also torment dogs in this way until the dog's learned to never bother trying to catch it. Size doesn't have anything to do with that.
Quote: On that topic: I found that rather than killing every new lot of rats that moved in, it was best to keep the ones that made the least nuisance of themselves. Only some of them attacked chicks; others were quite inoffensive, only tidied up any scraps that were left about, etc. There are many different species of rodents, with only a very few being pests, and some species control other rodents. Native rats tend to kill domestic/feral rats and mice, and there is a species of mouse that will hunt and kill and eat all other mice. This latter species is allowed to be kept as a pet. I have always found that asides from cats, the best rodent control is an established breeding pair of a species that holds territory and defends it aggressively.

On the topic of deterrence, anything that contributes to confusing their senses or obscuring some information whether scent or sight or sound will help. The less the cat (or whatever the predator at fault is) can clearly see and hear and smell its prey, the better. I believe this is why ammonia sometimes works; not because they respect a human's urine markings, but because the potent stench obscures other smells which are vitally important to know of.
Quote: Those are general guideline sorts of details... Cats can cleanly take prey, and foxes/hawks can make a mess, etc. Some animals tend towards messy kills but that doesn't mean you can ID the predator from one kill in every case, just based on how many feathers are present. Not that you were saying that, just giving an example.
Quote: In my experiences, that's basically how it goes. Even if he's not desexed, if he doesn't measure up in any way, death is likely. Once he's desexed, he lives a terrible half life in perpetual anxiety unless someone takes him in to be a pet. I would hazard a guess that about a fifth of toms are killed by other toms in the wild. It might be a higher or lower number, but I'd think higher; also a lot of fatal maulings occur, which aren't direct kills but lead to death through sepsis. Any tom that can't fight his way to the top (which is the vast majority) is likely to get killed sooner or later.
Quote: What it does do is take away his edge. Once that drive is gone he knows he's the inferior specimen, the other cat knows it too, and cats are one species that really specializes in psychological intimidation as a method of achieving their ends. Once a cat feels it is a goner, it's a goner; this is irrespective of its physical capacity to defend itself. Feral cats also take it upon themselves to eradicate sub par members of the species with rather more dedication than I can recall seeing in most other species. I regularly found dead toms which had died from being bitten in the chest and neck by other toms while living at that overrun place.

It's a controversial topic, controlling animals through killing. But it's easy to be adamantly anti any method of control until you've tried all the humane ones and they've failed and you're still taking losses. To the OP: if you've tried every alternative and they've all failed, don't waste time feeling bad about doing whatever you had to do. Best wishes.

 

[enola]

Great post! I agree completely...

I have a declawed, spayed, 9 year old cat that hunts AND catches squirrels. There is no doubt in my mind that a cat can kill a chicken.

 

[furbabymum]

Just wanted to offer my .02. For the record, I totally support the animal keeper's need to keep their animals safe, and also the inverse which is the animal keeper's need to keep other animals safe from their animals. I prefer the least painful and distressing methods possible but unfortunately they are not always possible. Personally I would never use poison though, but I'm not here to judge those who do. If poison is used, best for it to be a very quickly eliminated one that doesn't linger on for generations and which is potent and kills the first time, every time. Non target animals will possibly die, including pets or livestock, but these are risks inherent in using poisons.

I have been breeding good self defense mechanisms and traits into my livestock animals for a while now, since any animal that sits in the paddock being easy game is wasting my time. I need them to be able to run or fly or attack as necessary, and to have the weapons, attitude and aptitude to do so; also I gear their environment in such a way as to ensure they have the advantage. For geese, that's living on a sloped paddock that has a dam at the lowest point, and no obstructions. If attacked up the top of the paddock they will take flight and land in the dam. Just as an example. If they ranged a wooded level field they'd be easy game.

I'm pretty experienced with feral cats, having lived for years in the midst of a colony exceeding 100 at one point. I've also had pet cats since I was a kid. A few people here don't seem to think a cat can carry off or kill a fully grown duck. I assure you, they can. Most cats lack the desire, but that doesn't mean they won't if hungry or brave enough. So I do believe it's logical for the OP to view the cats with suspicion.

Also, the trap-neuter-release thing I'm not sure about the worth of. An outright cull would be better. People say it leads to the cat "holding the space" --- not in my experience, it doesn't. (But if anyone has proof of that claim I'd be happy to see it). We see even in chickens how very important breeding viability tends to be for an animal's status and subsequent control of resources.

From my experience, desexed cats lose status immediately, and become viewed (and treated) as cripples by the majority of entire cats. A cat's entire endocrinal system in functioning order holds a strong influence over its ability to gain and defend a territory. The gonads of both genders are a part of this.

An adult cat's breeding status bears huge influence in its ability to hold a territory and therefore gain a steady feed supply. It cannot compete with non desexed ferals, and automatically the majority of desexed males and females will lose status and territory; they then assume the status of juveniles or old or crippled cats, and it's hard for them to survive. Once the entire cats smell that the desexed cat's scent markings no longer declare its viability, they move in on it, fight, and if able to they displace the desexed cat to a lower grade territory where it will often suffer for lack of food. In my opinion it's kinder to cull it rather than waste money on neutering.
Our cats used to kill and carry off wild rabbits twice their size. Cats have no problem killing and carrying prey up to twice their weight. They are incredibly efficient and powerful predators. Around here (Australia) they are known to take goat kids, wallabies, adult geese, lambs, etc, and basically anything they can get hold of. Some ferals around here also chew through chicken wire without an issue.

I lived for a while near a pig and duck farmer. He had large ducks in a fenced enclosure and we suspected one of our cats was paying them visits, so we caged the cat. There was never any proof of an attack and he'd always been a good rodent killer, not bird killer, but we saw him watching them too closely and took what we thought were pre-emptive measures. They would have weighed more than him, but he'd killed things his own size or larger before, and carried them off, so we made sure he wasn't loose to attack someone's livestock. When cats stare at animals they tend to mean something by it. If these cats are spotted watching the livestock I would assume at least one has had a go at them.
Cats don't bother crows for the same reason they don't bother tiny willy-wagtails --- the bird tends to be too clever for the cat to catch. Willy wagtails will spend a long time tormenting any cat stupid enough to try to catch them, until the cat is so resigned that the bird can stand an inch from its face in smug safety, and even walk on it. The bird's glee and confidence is palpable. They also torment dogs in this way until the dog's learned to never bother trying to catch it. Size doesn't have anything to do with that.
On that topic: I found that rather than killing every new lot of rats that moved in, it was best to keep the ones that made the least nuisance of themselves. Only some of them attacked chicks; others were quite inoffensive, only tidied up any scraps that were left about, etc. There are many different species of rodents, with only a very few being pests, and some species control other rodents. Native rats tend to kill domestic/feral rats and mice, and there is a species of mouse that will hunt and kill and eat all other mice. This latter species is allowed to be kept as a pet. I have always found that asides from cats, the best rodent control is an established breeding pair of a species that holds territory and defends it aggressively.

On the topic of deterrence, anything that contributes to confusing their senses or obscuring some information whether scent or sight or sound will help. The less the cat (or whatever the predator at fault is) can clearly see and hear and smell its prey, the better. I believe this is why ammonia sometimes works; not because they respect a human's urine markings, but because the potent stench obscures other smells which are vitally important to know of.
Those are general guideline sorts of details... Cats can cleanly take prey, and foxes/hawks can make a mess, etc. Some animals tend towards messy kills but that doesn't mean you can ID the predator from one kill in every case, just based on how many feathers are present. Not that you were saying that, just giving an example.
In my experiences, that's basically how it goes. Even if he's not desexed, if he doesn't measure up in any way, death is likely. Once he's desexed, he lives a terrible half life in perpetual anxiety unless someone takes him in to be a pet. I would hazard a guess that about a fifth of toms are killed by other toms in the wild. It might be a higher or lower number, but I'd think higher; also a lot of fatal maulings occur, which aren't direct kills but lead to death through sepsis. Any tom that can't fight his way to the top (which is the vast majority) is likely to get killed sooner or later.
What it does do is take away his edge. Once that drive is gone he knows he's the inferior specimen, the other cat knows it too, and cats are one species that really specializes in psychological intimidation as a method of achieving their ends. Once a cat feels it is a goner, it's a goner; this is irrespective of its physical capacity to defend itself. Feral cats also take it upon themselves to eradicate sub par members of the species with rather more dedication than I can recall seeing in most other species. I regularly found dead toms which had died from being bitten in the chest and neck by other toms while living at that overrun place.

It's a controversial topic, controlling animals through killing. But it's easy to be adamantly anti any method of control until you've tried all the humane ones and they've failed and you're still taking losses. To the OP: if you've tried every alternative and they've all failed, don't waste time feeling bad about doing whatever you had to do. Best wishes.

The mice are in the house. We leave them alone outside by inside they gotta die! lol

As for the cats, yes I still do believe it could be them. I am not 100% sure since I didn't witness it but we see them around A LOT! In fact, just 2 mornings ago our akbash was having a hissy so we let him out. He sprinted to the barn and POOF 3 cats took to the hills. They are stalking our birds for sure.

We are still attempting to live trap but we are really having no luck with that.

Our neighbor (different than the cat one and about 80 acres from us) has a ton of fixed cats outside. She also has raccoons and coyote stalking her birds. So I haven't believed that a cat can hold territory from other predators. I know this makes them a possibility for our birds but she's had issues with them for years and we've never had issue with them. Our dogs are very good at holding their territory from most things. Our great pyr is unfixed and we take him out to mark territory. The coyotes have a den near our other neighbors about 100 acres from us but the cats are right next door.

I do think some of our larger and more aggressive birds are keeping the cats at bay. The ducks were taken when they were away from the other poultry. I've seen our peacocks stand up to great horned owls and even our viszla (dog). I believe the peacocks and guineas are preventing the cats from taking anyone near them. For this reason we have not been letting them free range any longer. No losses since the ducks vanished. We got our akbash fixed and will be placing him out with the birds on a permanent basis as soon as he's healed. We fixed him because of his growing wanderlust. Didn't want him abandoning his birds.

 

[petrel]

Feral/turned out cats are a hot topic on any forum. From something as benign as walking on (and tracking up) cars and boats to to the destruction of income producing property, this topic creates strong feelings. I go to the trouble and expense of keeping all of my animals on my property. I expect nothing less from my neighbors.

As far as effective removal, a good red lensed spotlight and an electronic caller (i'd recommend FoxPro) will help you determine what is truly killing your stock. Cats, foxes, coyotes, and racoons all come running to the sound of a rabbit or bird in distress call. Once you identify the culprits, you can decide how to deal with them (i'd recommend a .22 rifle with a 3-5X scope). It would only take a few evenings to effect real damage to a population of predators.

Remember, if cats are to blame, you must harass animal control until they address the problem. Foxes and racoons have a designated season in many states. You may kill coyotes anytime in most places. Best of Luck!