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I hope this thread can stay open. I am enjoying reading it.
I hope this thread can stay open. I am enjoying reading it.
Biden - Palin Debate, Anyone watch it?
- Thread starter lowcountrypoultry
- Start date
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no its not a hit against any people from these states its just facts. Here while I was a younger boy the neighborhood i lived in was nothing but but republican signs. 8 homes sold and new people who moved in. Those 8 houses were bought by people from NY and NJ. The next election which was dole and clinton had nothing but clinton on their lawns. growing up every person you talked to seemed to be born here in va. Now for every 5 people you talk to 4 are from either NY or NJ or somewhere up north. Virginia is not what it was when I was young. So no its not a blow to anyone just a fact!
Obama's plan for withdrawal tells our enemies exactly when they can come in and take over. DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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OK, glad to do it!
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As am I. I prefer being non-partisan because I feel it holds me accountable to knowing for what I am voting. I wish that our country had followed some of the Founding Fathers who hoped that we would never go the route of parties due to the inherent problems it can cause. I hope that someday, a viable third party will arise and hold both of the major parties accountable!
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There are many who would agree with you about Biden being better than Obama and I think there are valid arguments to that point. However, I would disagree that Obama is a blank slate of the same status as Palin. Not only is Obama trained in Constitutional law, but he taught it. Put that with his years in the Illinois State Senate and his years in the US Senate, I would argue that he's better prepared than Palin to lead this nation. If she cannot answer a simple question about the Bush Doctrine, how is it that she's going to deal with the consequences of that Doctrine in our relationships to the world? Like Obama, I was opposed to this war/occupation prior to the invasion, and for many of the same reasons that he was. So, that already gives him points in my book for good judgment. Palin, on the other hand, is still of the belief that we're fighting in Iraq because they attacked us on 9/11, a belief now debunked by pretty much everyone but Cheney.
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And, while we're pointing out mistakes, Biden was incorrect about the VP's roll as outlined in Article 1. It was Article 2. And Sarah Palin quoted the name of a Civil War commander, not the commander in Afghanistan. So yes, they all make mistakes and I'll fairly call all of them on their mistakes. I can do that since I refuse to stake a claim on one party or the other.
And, while I'm at it, I'm sure I get things wrong from time to time as well.
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However, unfortunately, we failed to learn from the mistakes prior to the Great Depression. The housing bubble in Florida that spread throughout the US, lousy mortgages, and banks speculating in the markets is what got us there. An interesting read is to go through some historical newspapers and read the headlines and discussions in the months prior to the market crash. Sounds a lot like today. But, the regulations that were put into place held firm and kept things on the right path until the changes were made in the past decades that began unraveling them. Yes, they worked, but they also kept a lot of people from getting rich, and some people with power wanted them gone. I would argue that, just like Hoover's attempts, some of these short term solutions won't work and it won't work until we build from the bottom-up rather than the trickle-down (my hubby has a rather crass name for that theory
). My personal fear is this. . . Yes, banks are buying each other out right now in order to save themselves, but some of them may also be doing so for fear of the greater regulations that will come with a Democratic win in November. But in my opinion, bigger comes with more problems. It's a lot harder to wreck havoc in a national system if you have a bunch of mom and pop shops than a huge Walmart (America's biggest employer). Should Walmart falter, the government feels the need to step in. Should a single or even a group of Mom and Pop shops falter, it doesn't reverberate throughout the economy. Put that massive of an environment into our banking system and you have a recipe for disaster.
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And you don't think any of their choices lead to any of those events? Was it only luck?
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I'd love to hear your arguments why. Here's mine. War is expensive. War costs money. We cannot both support war and support tax breaks for the wealthy and for corporations (of which I am an owner, by the way). I live by my means and I expect our government to do so as well. The past 3 Republican administrations have done a horrible job of this, but this most recent one has done so even more than the others. People are dropping out of the middle class because wages have been frozen and there are becoming fewer opportunities to break out of the lower classes. If we continue to fund foreign occupations (think bomb, bomb Iran) where is that money going to come from? Will there be money for school loans, for people to gain an education to help propel them beyond their current class? Who will cover your retirement when SS is gone and if the stock market fails? Now, lest you think that I pulled the War Vs. Social Security or social programs argument out of some left wing blog somewhere, I'd like to tell you where that argument comes from. It comes from the PNAC's "Rebuilding America's Defenses" (2000) which was largely adopted by Bush in his National Security Strategy (2002) in the lead up to the War in Iraq. The argument that they make is that too much money is going toward social programs and should be going toward defense with this idea of preemptive strikes against nations for whom we want to impart US influence. If you haven't read the 80 page Rebuilding America's Defenses, I recommend that you do. It's boring reading, but since it involves policy decisions for which each of us votes, I feel it's a responsibility to do so.
Backyard Buddies (who is just a long winded as Biden, but not nearly as knowledgeable!)
OK, glad to do it!
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As am I. I prefer being non-partisan because I feel it holds me accountable to knowing for what I am voting. I wish that our country had followed some of the Founding Fathers who hoped that we would never go the route of parties due to the inherent problems it can cause. I hope that someday, a viable third party will arise and hold both of the major parties accountable!
Quote:
There are many who would agree with you about Biden being better than Obama and I think there are valid arguments to that point. However, I would disagree that Obama is a blank slate of the same status as Palin. Not only is Obama trained in Constitutional law, but he taught it. Put that with his years in the Illinois State Senate and his years in the US Senate, I would argue that he's better prepared than Palin to lead this nation. If she cannot answer a simple question about the Bush Doctrine, how is it that she's going to deal with the consequences of that Doctrine in our relationships to the world? Like Obama, I was opposed to this war/occupation prior to the invasion, and for many of the same reasons that he was. So, that already gives him points in my book for good judgment. Palin, on the other hand, is still of the belief that we're fighting in Iraq because they attacked us on 9/11, a belief now debunked by pretty much everyone but Cheney.
Quote:
And, while we're pointing out mistakes, Biden was incorrect about the VP's roll as outlined in Article 1. It was Article 2. And Sarah Palin quoted the name of a Civil War commander, not the commander in Afghanistan. So yes, they all make mistakes and I'll fairly call all of them on their mistakes. I can do that since I refuse to stake a claim on one party or the other.
Quote:
However, unfortunately, we failed to learn from the mistakes prior to the Great Depression. The housing bubble in Florida that spread throughout the US, lousy mortgages, and banks speculating in the markets is what got us there. An interesting read is to go through some historical newspapers and read the headlines and discussions in the months prior to the market crash. Sounds a lot like today. But, the regulations that were put into place held firm and kept things on the right path until the changes were made in the past decades that began unraveling them. Yes, they worked, but they also kept a lot of people from getting rich, and some people with power wanted them gone. I would argue that, just like Hoover's attempts, some of these short term solutions won't work and it won't work until we build from the bottom-up rather than the trickle-down (my hubby has a rather crass name for that theory
Quote:
And you don't think any of their choices lead to any of those events? Was it only luck?
Quote:
I'd love to hear your arguments why. Here's mine. War is expensive. War costs money. We cannot both support war and support tax breaks for the wealthy and for corporations (of which I am an owner, by the way). I live by my means and I expect our government to do so as well. The past 3 Republican administrations have done a horrible job of this, but this most recent one has done so even more than the others. People are dropping out of the middle class because wages have been frozen and there are becoming fewer opportunities to break out of the lower classes. If we continue to fund foreign occupations (think bomb, bomb Iran) where is that money going to come from? Will there be money for school loans, for people to gain an education to help propel them beyond their current class? Who will cover your retirement when SS is gone and if the stock market fails? Now, lest you think that I pulled the War Vs. Social Security or social programs argument out of some left wing blog somewhere, I'd like to tell you where that argument comes from. It comes from the PNAC's "Rebuilding America's Defenses" (2000) which was largely adopted by Bush in his National Security Strategy (2002) in the lead up to the War in Iraq. The argument that they make is that too much money is going toward social programs and should be going toward defense with this idea of preemptive strikes against nations for whom we want to impart US influence. If you haven't read the 80 page Rebuilding America's Defenses, I recommend that you do. It's boring reading, but since it involves policy decisions for which each of us votes, I feel it's a responsibility to do so.
Backyard Buddies (who is just a long winded as Biden, but not nearly as knowledgeable!)
backyard,PC, and MOST of the rest posting,,,,, THANK-YOU ,, now this is how to have a DISCUSSION in an adult manner
for the FEW that get personal because they read with a "ATTITUDE" because they think their being "dissed" ,, read and learn.
again guys,,,THANK-YOU
for the FEW that get personal because they read with a "ATTITUDE" because they think their being "dissed" ,, read and learn.
again guys,,,THANK-YOU
Backyard, truly thou rockest.
And, while we're correcting misunderstandings, I wanted to address one on McCain's behalf. When McCain returned from his imprisonment in Vietnam, he didn't leave a wife with cancer for Cindy Hensley. Carol McCain had been in a terrible car accident with multiple broken bones. She had lost height and gained weight due to her injuries and surgeries to repair them.
The politician who left the wife with cancer was Newt Gingrich.
Edited because I mixed up my comments. Newt left the wife with cancer. Rudy Giuliani left his wife after discovering his cancer. See, I make mistakes too.
The politician who left the wife with cancer was Newt Gingrich.
Edited because I mixed up my comments. Newt left the wife with cancer. Rudy Giuliani left his wife after discovering his cancer. See, I make mistakes too.
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I am no McCain fan. But he is a hero. He came home after having his arm broke so badly......he can't even lift it to salute the flag.
I won't vote for him.....but it doesn't change HIS history. I admire his courage.
I won't vote for him.....but it doesn't change HIS history. I admire his courage.
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Lou Dobbs/T. Boone Pickens
Ron Paul/Ralph Nader
Lou Dobbs/T. Boone Pickens
Ron Paul/Ralph Nader
They are showing the people how to rebuild their economy and infrastructure.
Oh, boy are they in trouble!
Oh, boy are they in trouble!
Backyard Buddies, you are as skilled a writer as you are knowledgeable.
I'll attempt to respond on a few points.
On Palin:
In my opinion the ability to lead is not directly related to one's academic achievements.
Many of the greatest world leaders, business people, & inventors have had minimal
educations. Palin inspires people, as does Obama, and appears to be a natural leader.
Obama does not appear the same. He's an academic, a lawyer, and a politician from
Illinois, all things that tell me nothing about his ability to lead this country. In fact his
background in IL and some of the people he has associated with make me question
his judgement and honesty. I'm falling into the trap of comparing Palin to Obama
rather than Palin to Biden. The truth is I know very little about Biden other than I like
the guy. Many people love Palin for her being normal and disconnected from D.C..
How many of us have any trust for D.C.?
On the buyouts:
I agree with your concerns on the bank buyouts. We are seeing the creation of nothing
short of monopolies. Having 4 big money banks in this country is downright scary.
I'm not sure where any of this is going to take us.
On a third party:
I wish.
On Deficits:
Deficits are a mystery to most people. Reagan created huge deficits in order to keep
up with the Soviet Union. He gambled and won. Bush Sr took over during a recession
therefore had reduced tax revenues. GW, well history will tell. As for Clinton I've had
the debate with many of my liberal friends. They all love to say how great the economy
was under Clinton. The economy of the 90's and the tax revenues that flowed, were a
product of decades of history that materialized into a very unique economy. Clinton,
who I liked, was smart enough to keep his hands off the economy.
I would like to say that Clinton, like Reagan, was a true leader. He made people feel
positive about their country. This is something I see in Palin. Unfortunately, while I
will vote for McCain, do not find him inspiring.
On the Iraq War:
I supported the war and still do. I view it as a military operation, not a war.
Here are my reasons:
1-Saddam was a destabilizing force to the region. Like it or not the Middle East
fuels most of the world. Yes, I would like to see that changed and know how we can.
2-Saddam was in violation of multiple UN resolutions.
3-Sadaam butchered his own people and was a cruel and evil dictator.
4-Sadaam was sitting on top of one of the largest known oil reserves(See #1).
5-Should I even mention WMDs? Think some of them when over the Syrian border?
6-The U.S. needed to show the world what we are capable of militarily.
7-Iran
8-By entering Iraq we put thousands or terrorist cells on the defensive, not because
they were in Iraq, but because they would enter Iraq to fight us. We brought the
fight to them.
9-We learned what works and what doesn't in what wars of the 21st century would
look like. Call it a learning experience.
Is it expensive? Yes. Is the world a safer place because of it? I believe so.
Thanks for the intellectual excercise. It helped my headache.
I'll attempt to respond on a few points.
On Palin:
In my opinion the ability to lead is not directly related to one's academic achievements.
Many of the greatest world leaders, business people, & inventors have had minimal
educations. Palin inspires people, as does Obama, and appears to be a natural leader.
Obama does not appear the same. He's an academic, a lawyer, and a politician from
Illinois, all things that tell me nothing about his ability to lead this country. In fact his
background in IL and some of the people he has associated with make me question
his judgement and honesty. I'm falling into the trap of comparing Palin to Obama
rather than Palin to Biden. The truth is I know very little about Biden other than I like
the guy. Many people love Palin for her being normal and disconnected from D.C..
How many of us have any trust for D.C.?
On the buyouts:
I agree with your concerns on the bank buyouts. We are seeing the creation of nothing
short of monopolies. Having 4 big money banks in this country is downright scary.
I'm not sure where any of this is going to take us.
On a third party:
I wish.
On Deficits:
Deficits are a mystery to most people. Reagan created huge deficits in order to keep
up with the Soviet Union. He gambled and won. Bush Sr took over during a recession
therefore had reduced tax revenues. GW, well history will tell. As for Clinton I've had
the debate with many of my liberal friends. They all love to say how great the economy
was under Clinton. The economy of the 90's and the tax revenues that flowed, were a
product of decades of history that materialized into a very unique economy. Clinton,
who I liked, was smart enough to keep his hands off the economy.
I would like to say that Clinton, like Reagan, was a true leader. He made people feel
positive about their country. This is something I see in Palin. Unfortunately, while I
will vote for McCain, do not find him inspiring.
On the Iraq War:
I supported the war and still do. I view it as a military operation, not a war.
Here are my reasons:
1-Saddam was a destabilizing force to the region. Like it or not the Middle East
fuels most of the world. Yes, I would like to see that changed and know how we can.
2-Saddam was in violation of multiple UN resolutions.
3-Sadaam butchered his own people and was a cruel and evil dictator.
4-Sadaam was sitting on top of one of the largest known oil reserves(See #1).
5-Should I even mention WMDs? Think some of them when over the Syrian border?
6-The U.S. needed to show the world what we are capable of militarily.
7-Iran
8-By entering Iraq we put thousands or terrorist cells on the defensive, not because
they were in Iraq, but because they would enter Iraq to fight us. We brought the
fight to them.
9-We learned what works and what doesn't in what wars of the 21st century would
look like. Call it a learning experience.
Is it expensive? Yes. Is the world a safer place because of it? I believe so.
Thanks for the intellectual excercise. It helped my headache.
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