BIG SURPRISE : Bali ducklings born from NON-crested Indian Runner parents

[Papaye]

Hello.

After my first 12 Indian runner ducklings of 2024 - born between May 5th and May 7th... 10 new runners babies are now also born, this time between May 13th and May 14th.

Here is a picture of some of them :

(These poor, pretty babies are still shy, so I just can't take good enough pictures for the time being...)

There are :
- 1 White duckling,
- 3 Trout ducklings,
- 6 Light Dusky ducklings - 2 among them being... crested!

The two Light Dusky on the right are, indeed, Bali ducklings : the one on the far right has a pretty big crest of feathers on its head, and the first one on its left has just a tiny, tiny crest of short feathers...

I don't know how that happened : after all, I own NO crested duck; and it's the very first time one of my hens hatches Bali ducklings...!
Until yesterday, I even thought one of the parents had to be crested in order to birth a crested duckling...?

...I have thanksfully already learned about crested ducks...
I know their health, and even their life, could be at risk because of some neurological problem caused by a skull malformation... but some things I don't know...!

Thus, I would have some questions :

1 - Do Bali ducklings born from non-crested parents are less at risk from health issues?

I know crested ducks can have a big variety of issues : they can suffer from seizures, mobility impairments, blindness, etc...
I also remember reading about the fact these issues can be particularly aggravated if the TWO parents of a crested ducks are crested themselves...(?)
But then : what about a Bali duck born from normal Indian Runner ducks...? Is it generally more lucky...?

2 - Does the size of the crest matter concerning these health issues?

I once read about the fact smaller is the crest, better it is...
In fact, I remember to have read that, because of the risks to their health, and even to their life : big-crested ducks are wrong to breed, but it would be okay to breed small-crested ducks...?
...Could somebody confirm?

3 - Is the size of the crest of importance to avoid injuries when mating...?

Ducks can be hurt by drakes because drakes tend to bite and pull on the ducks' head when they are mating...
But crested ducks are more at risks, because what...? They have a crest of feathers on their head, yes; but also because underneath this hair is a very sensible area of the body... (Fat? Tumerous fat, specifically...? Would somebody have details...?)
And I do wonder if the head of small-crested ducks are just less sensible than the head of big-crested ducks; and also if the size matters concerning the risk of injuries...?

I am going to give away these ducklings when they are old enough...
But I want to be careful, and give the Bali ones - if ever they survive (ducklings can die easily, but more so crested ones) - to somebody who would be particularly responsible with them.
Thus, if the two crested ducklings I have now are a male and a female, I won't give them away together, so I know they at least won't be bred for their crest by people not prepared for the consequences...!

But : I am also especially worrying if these babies are females...

Where I am from, a lot of people do contact me in order to get some female Runners, and a lot of them specifically want one female for their one male, or worse yet : one female for their several males...

One female per drake could work - sometimes, it does -, but I would not let go of my duck if she was crested AND I knew the person who would want to take her home owns no other females : I would be afraid a drake would downright rip the crest off the duck, and I see blood, and... I don't know if it would be possible to reassure me?

Thus, if my Bali ducklings are females AND I don't find anyone responsible enough to bring them home, I am considering keeping them.
I don't want crested ducks, but if I don't have any choice to protect my babies... what can I do?

...Nevertheless, to be honest : I am kind of afraid keeping Bali females would also be very stupid on my part.
Because my drakes can be mean, and tend to rip feathers of their girls' head; and I am going to buy some others females, but also other males...

...Would somebody want to share their knowledges (and/or pictures, please) about Crested Indian Runner ducks? Or even their opinions...?

I was not counting on havind any at my home... but now these Bali ducklings are here, I have to learn more about them, and prepare myself in case I'm stuck with them.

(For now, I have already thought about adding food grade Diatomaceous Earth to their food, since it is renowed good for bones - among other things... I hope it could at least limit the damages to their skull, if there is any...!)

(I'm preparing for the worse, because I have read so much about what could go wrong with crested ducks...)

Thank you!!

 

[chickengr]

I don't understand how you got crested ducklings from non crested parents. I have both and have no problem. a year ago fox got a few crested females so I'm trying to hatch some (no luck so far). they mate without any problem.

if both male and female have huge crest some ducklings might die in shell. once hatched they are not in danger. read less and spend more time with your babies. enjoy them!

 

[ruthhope]

The crest abnormality can arise from a spontaneous mutation. That would be the explanation if you had one crested duckling. As you have 2 in the same clutch, my conclusion is that one of your ducks is a carrier of the crested gene but it is not expressed in that parent . Variable expression of genes is common in humans and I would think likely in ducks (I do not know that for fact).

You are right not to donate a male and female crested together. My son has a crested pekin female and she was kept well away from my now deceased crested male pekin.

My son's crested pekin has a medium poof and I have seen his drake holding on to it while mating but she was not injured and the drake mainly holds on her neck feathers like he does with his noncrested females. I think one can only watch out and separate a crested female that is being injured during mating.

Whether size makes a difference. I cannot be certain. It's the extent of the defect inside the skull that leads to neurological problems : someone else will have to advise you if there is correlation between size of poof and neurological problems. Neither my son's crested female nor my crested drake had neurological problems

 

[Papaye]

Hi!

I have both and have no problem. a year ago fox got a few crested females so I'm trying to hatch some (no luck so far). they mate without any problem.

What were your crested ducks...?
Bali, or some other breed?

Would you have any picture to share...?

When you say they mate without any problem... what about injuries because of their crest?
Did you ever have any bad experience?

if both male and female have huge crest some ducklings might die in shell. once hatched they are not in danger.

Sadly, that's not what I have learned : even once they are born, they can have various health issues. Even die in their first day of life because of their skull malformation...

I know there are some people who have regreted taking crested ducks home, because even ones that had no problem young ended up developping severe health issues once they got older...
(And let's be honest : health issues could also eventually mean the use of A LOT of money! What people don't necessarily have, especially now...)

read less and spend more time with your babies. enjoy them!

I am obligated to learn and be the most prepared possible : after all, I am responsible for my animals.

Thank you very much for your opinion.
I will try to not stress too much!

The crest abnormality can arise from a spontaneous mutation. That would be the explanation if you had one crested duckling. As you have 2 in the same clutch, my conclusion is that one of your ducks is a carrier of the crested gene but it is not expressed in that parent .

I did not know it would be the case!

I just thought if a duck had no crest, then none of its offsprings could get the crest...
Especially since crested ducks are renowed to be so hard to get...

You are right not to donate a male and female crested together. My son has a crested pekin female and she was kept well away from my now deceased crested male pekin.

Yes.
After having learned all of the issues breeding two crested ducks together could cause...

My son's crested pekin has a medium poof and I have seen his drake holding on to it while mating but she was not injured and the drake mainly holds on her neck feathers like he does with his noncrested females. I think one can only watch out and separate a crested female that is being injured during mating.

I would not want to try my luck with my drakes : they bite on my females' head, precisely where the crest would be leveled...

If I have to keep at least one the the crested ducklings, then I will very closely monitor their mating.
And if one of the drakes bite on the crest? ...Then : either I would try to find somebody very responsible to give the crested duck, OR I would just keep them separated until I find a better solution...

Whether size makes a difference. I cannot be certain. It's the extent of the defect inside the skull that leads to neurological problems : someone else will have to advise you if there is correlation between size of poof and neurological problems. Neither my son's crested female nor my crested drake had neurological problems

Thank you for your post!

I hope somebody who knows more than us could at least answer to my questions...?
(We never know enough...)

 

[chickengr]

Hi!



What were your crested ducks...?
Bali, or some other breed?

Would you have any picture to share...?

When you say they mate without any problem... what about injuries because of their crest?
Did you ever have any bad experience?



Sadly, that's not what I have learned : even once they are born, they can have various health issues. Even die in their first day of life because of their skull malformation...

I know there are some people who have regreted taking crested ducks home, because even ones that had no problem young ended up developping severe health issues once they got older...
(And let's be honest : health issues could also eventually mean the use of A LOT of money! What people don't necessarily have, especially now...)



I am obligated to learn and be the most prepared possible : after all, I am responsible for my animals.

Thank you very much for your opinion.
I will try to not stress too much!

I have a few bali ducks and keep them together with indian runner. sorry no pics.

they mate every day without any issues. I also have never had any issue with hatched ducklings. some dead in shell yes but no problem once they hatched. they are very healthy, never had a sick one.

btw I have crested silkie chickens. they might need some assistance at hatch, that's all.

when I got my first chickens 10 years ago I spent months reading and learning. I can understand you. but there are so many misleading information so now I just relax and enjoy my birds.

 

[Papaye]

Hello.

I have a few bali ducks and keep them together with indian runner. sorry no pics.

they mate every day without any issues. I also have never had any issue with hatched ducklings. some dead in shell yes but no problem once they hatched. they are very healthy, never had a sick one.

...Since I have some eggs that don't hatch, I now wonder if the babies would have just been Bali duck - or at last some of them...?
I know losses are just natural, but I can't help the fact I'm curious...

btw I have crested silkie chickens. they might need some assistance at hatch, that's all.

I have an Appenzeller Spitzhauben hen, and she is crazy.
I thing her being crested is the cause...

She is called Punky; and she is smart.

When she is broody OR going broody, she is so loud my roosters are almost mute compared with her...!
She just wants E.VE.RY.BO.DY to know she is going to be a mom...
Worst is she takes days (generally around to weeks I think?) to be completely broody when she is in the mood, so it would be around a month and a half of a crazy hen yelling to her heart's content...
Thanksfully, I live in the countryside, so not a lot of neighbours to complain (nobody does)...

This hen is a very good mom to the babies she hatches. So much so when I separate them because it's time, she keeps coming to them (she is a jumper) to continue raising them...

But she is just so crazy... And I think the fact she is crested explains all!
(I mean... crested birds are said to have a vaulted skull... It can not be healthy!)

when I got my first chickens 10 years ago I spent months reading and learning. I can understand you. but there are so many misleading information so now I just relax and enjoy my birds.

Yeah... but it is hard to relax when I still don't know if my Bali ducklings will be healthy or not...

But I am monitoring them, and we just will see... There is nothing I can do for the time being!

(If they are females and I keep them, I at least won't let them have ducklings.)

 

[chickengr]

Hello.




...Since I have some eggs that don't hatch, I now wonder if the babies would have just been Bali duck - or at last some of them...?
I know losses are just natural, but I can't help the fact I'm curious...



I have an Appenzeller Spitzhauben hen, and she is crazy.
I thing her being crested is the cause...

She is called Punky; and she is smart.

When she is broody OR going broody, she is so loud my roosters are almost mute compared with her...!
She just wants E.VE.RY.BO.DY to know she is going to be a mom...
Worst is she takes days (generally around to weeks I think?) to be completely broody when she is in the mood, so it would be around a month and a half of a crazy hen yelling to her heart's content...
Thanksfully, I live in the countryside, so not a lot of neighbours to complain (nobody does)...

This hen is a very good mom to the babies she hatches. So much so when I separate them because it's time, she keeps coming to them (she is a jumper) to continue raising them...

But she is just so crazy... And I think the fact she is crested explains all!
(I mean... crested birds are said to have a vaulted skull... It can not be healthy!)



Yeah... but it is hard to relax when I still don't know if my Bali ducklings will be healthy or not...

But I am monitoring them, and we just will see... There is nothing I can do for the time being!

(If they are females and I keep them, I at least won't let them have ducklings.)

sorry I had internet issues and could not check posts.

as I said before if they survive hatching they don't have health issues. mine are about 4 years old.

not every crested bird is vaulted. some of my silkies are not. they hatched without crest and got it later. problem with vaulted birds is if other birds peck them they might get hurt and die.

 

[Papaye]

Hi!

sorry I had internet issues and could not check posts.

No problem!

not every crested bird is vaulted.

I... did not know about that.
I actually just learned about vaulted skull, and the article I read about it seem to imply ALL crested birds have a vaulted skull.

problem with vaulted birds is if other birds peck them they might get hurt and die.

But would you happen to know if chickens that have no crest can have a vaulted skull?
Because I once had a Naked Neck hen that killed herself by accidentally hitting her head on her coop's roof... I thought then chickens die much too easily, but maybe she actually had a skull malformation...?

 

[chickengr]

only crested birds have or don't have vaulted skull. chickens can die easily if get hurt even without vaulted skull.

 

[Papaye]

Hi.

Here is a picture taken just now :

On the right, laid on the ground : the duckling with a big crest on the head.

More on the left, just below the yellow (white) duckling : the duckling with a small crest.

I will post pictures when they are bigger, so we can follow their evolution and see how big their crests will eventually grow to be...
(I'm curious.)