Black Copper Marans discussion thread

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by geebs, Jan 26, 2011.

  1. pinkchick

    pinkchick "Ain't nuttin' like having da' blues"

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    Quote:all three of mine had the same markings at hataching. you can try the wing sexing and see if that works. once they are dry take and gently pull out a wing if the feathers are the same length then its a roo if they are different lengths then its a hen. i have done this with my three and i am waiting to see how it turned out. on my 2 d'uccles it seems to have worked though with having thus far 2 chicks looking like pullets

    The only Marans that can be sexed at hatch by markings are the Cuckoo variety of Marans.
    Wheatens can be sexed by wing feather color at approx. the age of one week to 10 days.

    Now having said that.....all chicks have certain sexable traits that are natural, such as the wing sexing that hdowden is referring to. Learning those traits can help determine the sex of the chicks at an early age. It helps to breed for these traits as well. I do. I can sex my Marans pretty darn accurately at the age of 3 days, but I wait and make the final call around 10 days.

    In my Marans, the females at the age of 3 days will have longer secondary flight feathers than the males and the females wing feathers will look like they are all basically the same length. The cockerels will have short secondary flight feathers and the primaries will be long.

    Also in my Marans, the females tail feathers will start to come in sooner than a males. I notice the tail feathers on the females at about 3 days of age. Sometimes I don't see tail feathers come in on males until approx. 10 days.
    Again with the females, their shoulder feathers just at the base of the neck and the top of the shoulders will start to come in faster than the males. I usually see the shoulder feathers come in on the females between 7-10 days of age. Once the males reach around 10 days to 2 weeks their comb is a dead ringer. [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Pullet (this photo also illustrates split wing)
    [​IMG]

    Cockerel
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2011
  2. Schroeder

    Schroeder Chillin' With My Peeps

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    My Coop
    Quote:In a mixed flock, I have BCMs, Lavender Orpingtons and Wheaten Ameraucanas. The ages of the three groups were spread out over about four weeks, i.e. some are older than others. All are being raised together under the exact same conditions.
    I have kept track of their first day of laying. A pullet from each of the three groups has laid her first egg at 23 weeks, 1 day. I had heard Marnas were slow, and so too, Ameraucanas, but I'm wondering if environment plays a greater role.
     
  3. BarnGoddess01

    BarnGoddess01 I [IMG]emojione/assets/png/2665.png?v=2.2.7[/IMG]

    Quote:all three of mine had the same markings at hataching. you can try the wing sexing and see if that works. once they are dry take and gently pull out a wing if the feathers are the same length then its a roo if they are different lengths then its a hen. i have done this with my three and i am waiting to see how it turned out. on my 2 d'uccles it seems to have worked though with having thus far 2 chicks looking like pullets

    The only Marans that can be sexed at hatch by markings are the Cuckoo variety of Marans.
    Wheatens can be sexed by wing feather color at approx. the age of one week to 10 days.

    Now having said that.....all chicks have certain sexable traits that are natural, such as the wing sexing that hdowden is referring to. Learning those traits can help determine the sex of the chicks at an early age. It helps to breed for these traits as well. I do. I can sex my Marans pretty darn accurately at the age of 3 days, but I wait and make the final call around 10 days.

    In my Marans, the females at the age of 3 days will have longer secondary flight feathers than the males and the females wing feathers will look like they are all basically the same length. The cockerels will have short secondary flight feathers and the primaries will be long.

    Also in my Marans, the females tail feathers will start to come in sooner than a males. I notice the tail feathers on the females at about 3 days of age. Sometimes I don't see tail feathers come in on males until approx. 10 days.
    Again with the females, their shoulder feathers just at the base of the neck and the top of the shoulders will start to come in faster than the males. I usually see the shoulder feathers come in on the females between 7-10 days of age. Once the males reach around 10 days to 2 weeks their comb is a dead ringer. [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Pullet (this photo also illustrates split wing)
    https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/11170_davis_pullet_wing_photo.jpg

    Cockerel
    https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/11170_bill_baby_boy_wing.jpg

    Have you found that the Cuckoos develop faster than the Black Coppers? At 2 weeks, my Cuckoos both have MUCH larger combs than any of the Black Coppers. I'm almost thinking all (all 3 of them [​IMG] ) the Black Coppers are females at this point- which doesn't make sense from an odds point of view. 1 possible male but if it is, his comb doesn't begin to compare to the Cuckoos! Based on what you are saying about feathering (and I've been looking at leg size as well) all the BCMs are appearing female at 2 weeks. [​IMG]
     
  4. snowbird

    snowbird Overrun With Chickens

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    Quote:all three of mine had the same markings at hataching. you can try the wing sexing and see if that works. once they are dry take and gently pull out a wing if the feathers are the same length then its a roo if they are different lengths then its a hen. i have done this with my three and i am waiting to see how it turned out. on my 2 d'uccles it seems to have worked though with having thus far 2 chicks looking like pullets

    The only Marans that can be sexed at hatch by markings are the Cuckoo variety of Marans.
    Wheatens can be sexed by wing feather color at approx. the age of one week to 10 days.

    Now having said that.....all chicks have certain sexable traits that are natural, such as the wing sexing that hdowden is referring to. Learning those traits can help determine the sex of the chicks at an early age. It helps to breed for these traits as well. I do. I can sex my Marans pretty darn accurately at the age of 3 days, but I wait and make the final call around 10 days.

    In my Marans, the females at the age of 3 days will have longer secondary flight feathers than the males and the females wing feathers will look like they are all basically the same length. The cockerels will have short secondary flight feathers and the primaries will be long.

    Also in my Marans, the females tail feathers will start to come in sooner than a males. I notice the tail feathers on the females at about 3 days of age. Sometimes I don't see tail feathers come in on males until approx. 10 days.
    Again with the females, their shoulder feathers just at the base of the neck and the top of the shoulders will start to come in faster than the males. I usually see the shoulder feathers come in on the females between 7-10 days of age. Once the males reach around 10 days to 2 weeks their comb is a dead ringer. [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Pullet (this photo also illustrates split wing)
    https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/11170_davis_pullet_wing_photo.jpg

    Cockerel
    https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/11170_bill_baby_boy_wing.jpg

    Kim, you not only have a split wing here you also have a slipped wing
     
  5. pinkchick

    pinkchick "Ain't nuttin' like having da' blues"

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    Washington State
    Barn~
    I should have stated that this is with Black Copper, Blue Copper and Splash Coppers that I raise. I have not had Cuckoo's so I can't comment on that but they would still have natural traits.
    I started out by watching my Welsummers that are sexable at hatch by markings. I studied them in with a hatch of Marans and watched similarities of the 2 while growing out. Having females that I knew were females to start out with really helped me link the natural sexing traits of the males and females and before long I could see the differences in males and females at a very young age.

    I was just reading back through the magnormous Marans thread and just went past your photo of the chicks...I am going to go back and look at them again and tell you what I think they look like to me.

    I also should have said that not all lines of Marans have been bred for traits that may give indicators or the faster feathering females and it takes years for those traits to breed forward as careful selection of both females and males is needed. Then the huge disclaimer is this.....it's still not 100% accurate. [​IMG]
     
  6. BarnGoddess01

    BarnGoddess01 I [IMG]emojione/assets/png/2665.png?v=2.2.7[/IMG]

    Quote:I just noticed that I actually have 2 with tiny wattles starting - 1 BCM and 1 Cuckoo. I'm betting those wattles suggest male.

    I would still LOVE to hear your opinion .... I need to get some updated photos posted as well.
     
  7. pinkchick

    pinkchick "Ain't nuttin' like having da' blues"

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    Washington State
    Barn~ Based on the 2nd and 3rd photos in this post https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=7923391#p7923391

    my
    guesses are
    2nd pic
    Possible pullet on the far left of the photo, but its iffy.... definite cockerel in the middle and on the right, thinking cockerel and it also has split wing.
    3rd pic
    Possible Pullet on the right, again iffy, and thinking split winged cockerel in the middle, and cockerel on the left.

    How old were they in this photo? Understand that the length of the wing sexing trait and guesses can only happen on around days 3-4 after that the difference gets minimal and you start watching for other signs. Primary and secondary flight feathers should be virtually the same in length by 2 weeks of age, so I would think a person would not be accurate making an assumption on wing alone at this age. It's a culmination of watching from about day 3 until approx. 3 weeks and in most cases the little roosties combs and wattles give them away by about days 10-14.

    Would be great to see new pics of them. [​IMG]
     
  8. VillageChicken

    VillageChicken Chillin' With My Peeps

    I don't hear much about split/slipped wing in Marans. I have some Bresse here that seem to have it, but they're strictly utility, so that's probably why. I had a Marans cockerel from UK that had angelwing/split wing, but I haven't seen it much at all in the German and Hungarian Marans that I have.

    Just curious, since it came up. Maybe i missed a big discussion on it, but really haven't seen it come up on this or the other forum as a big culling issue.

    I'm almost sure I remember Don saying he rarely sees split wing in Marans.
     
  9. snowbird

    snowbird Overrun With Chickens

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    Wolverine Country
    Quote:Hi Roger, I believe the past two year and 1500 chicks I had maybe two Slipped wing. I believe most of the wing DQs and faults are caused from inbreeding and not culling.
     
  10. lcatty

    lcatty Chillin' With My Peeps

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    May 6, 2011
    Las Cruces, NM
    Please forgive my ignorance but what is a slipped wing? And why is it a DQ?
     

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