Black or blue sultans

[Kev]

I agree with flyingmonkeypoop. Years ago I had an project on introducing new colors into Polish(main goal were BBR, Cuckoo and Crele but also Wheaten). Many of the crosses or later generations looked exactly like these, minus the leg feathering.

The blacks especially have a type that deviates way too far from pure sultan(very short and deep bodies, plus short tail. Necks too thick). I think this is another indication of outcrossing. If I hadn't known those were supposed to be sultans, would have guessed the blacks as being silkie crosses/mixes.

Also notice they appear to have dark legs.. aren't sultans supposed to have slate legs? It just seems too incredible of a concidence for the birds to "lose" the white and slate legs out of a pure line.

Anybody(flyingmonkeypoop?) confirm for me that sultans have recessive white? I think that's a strong strike against the claim of their purity.

 

[Cara]

The black pair also lack vulture hocks.

 

[King Tubby]

Does anybody know where to get some black or blue sultans?

 

[Kev]

Yes you are right. Sultans are one of the few breeds where VHs are called for..

 

[Kev]

Quote:
#2 in this thread. There's no such thing as a "pure sultan" in another color, crossbreeding or finding someone who already did is a necessity. Breed back colored birds each generation to good whites to achieve type. Achieving solid black/blue coloring is another challenge though.

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

I am pretty sure that they have recessive white. We crossed buff and black silkies to sultans a few years ago to try and get some colorful birds and got mostly blue and some red-orange birds so that would make them recessive white.
Good eye Cara, I didn't notice the lack of vulture hocks at first. Looking at them again I noticed that they have the leg/toe feathering of a langshan, so they were probably crossed with a clean legged bird. You would think that they would atleast cross to a black bird if they were going to cross breed. The rooster is more BBR than black.
I have been racking my mind trying to figure out what could be in the cross. I remembered seeing the type before on a UK or AUS site before. I still cant think of it though. It was probably a leghorn or something with white earlobes because if it is an F1 or even F2 cross it has really white earlobes.

 

[wclawrence]

It doesnt matter if they are outcrossed. The only thing that really matters in Exhibition type birds it the way they look. IF the Black Sultans in question look like white sultans and the ONLY difference, then the only thing that has to take place for them to be accepted into the standard is for a certian number of people to exhibit them at shows.

IF the birds are different in alot of other ways, they are junk.
or "project birds" where someone is in the process of making black sultans.

 

[King Tubby]

FWIW, I got in touch with this breeder and he says they are not crosses. Quote: these are the only ones I've ever saw. there is a few crosses out there. ,but crosses won't breed true.I need a few breeders to help keep these going.

Maybe in the future I will get some and give you a first-hand report.

Also I set two dozen white bantam sultan eggs in my LG last week. I can't wait.

 

[Cara]

Quote:
What he says and what his pictures say are apparently two different things.

 

[Kev]

Yep Cara is spot on, as usual. It's not just how they look, but the genetics also suggest otherwise.

It's worth repeating that there is nothing wrong with crossing out... to continue to deny or fight this is just silly.