Bloody Spots/ Strange Breathing

[EggSighted4Life]

To treat for that I've started dusting her with DE and putting 3 drops of Ivermectin on her skin.
She and her flock-mates eat layer/starter feed pellets

I hate DE, consider ineffective and also a harm to the respiratory system.

Ivermectin is a cattle dewormer that works on many things but is VERY harsh on the system and NOT approved for use in poultry in addition to being pricey. What made you go with that choice?

Permethrin spray is by far the easiest and very affordable thing to treat with.. but the Ivomec might already have hit hard and heavy so I don't know if you need to treat again or not.

@ 7 weeks old, LAYER feed is completely inappropriate and should be eliminated and avoided until eggs start. The lower protein (16%) doesn't adequately support their growing bodies and can cause delayed development. While the excess calcium (4% ish) can also stunt growth, delay laying, AND *possibly* (doesn't mean will) cause kidney failure if fed long term to birds not in lay.

Mixed veggies is a fine TREAT but NOT good nutrition and not what I would give to an ailing bird. The trouble breathing was not caused by pain or those bloody spots. It was very likely something respiratory that was allowed to proliferate by the immune system due to the added stress of the lice, the move, and so on being a bit overwhelming. It's great that you are seeing improvement. That's what happens when you get things under control and the immune system starts fighting the good fight.

 

[Eggcessive]

I didn’t see the bit about feeding both layer and chick starter, so I would just feed the rest of the starter to them all for now. Then you can get Flock Raiser or an all flock feed for everyone. That is what I use when raising chicks with larger birds, and it would be better for a rooster. You should, though have crushed oyster shell in a container for any laying hens to get enough calcium. The calcium in layer is 4 times more than starter or all flock, and it can lead to kidney problems and gout in young birds.

 

[Epiphany]

Ivermectin is a cattle dewormer that works on many things but is VERY harsh on the system and NOT approved for use in poultry in addition to being pricey. What made you go with that choice?

I chose Ivermectin because it was recommended by my on-island veterinarian. I had done research on it and had found it to be a reasonable option... had not read anything about it not being approved for birds otherwise I wouldn't have accepted it from my vet. I'll check out the Permethrin spray... I hope it's available online as I have no way of getting off island right now.

@ 7 weeks old, LAYER feed is completely inappropriate and should be eliminated and avoided until eggs start. The lower protein (16%) doesn't adequately support their growing bodies and can cause delayed development. While the excess calcium (4% ish) can also stunt growth, delay laying, AND *possibly* (doesn't mean will) cause kidney failure if fed long term to birds not in lay.

I think that that was possibly my worst-phrased sentence ever! To clarify, she and her two siblings eat starter only, but occasionally steal my older girl's layer feed when I'm not paying attention. while her older flock-mates get layer as they have been laying for about a year. Thanks for the useful info though, I hadn't known before exactly why it shouldn't be fed!
I have one question- if her respiratory ailment seems to be improving well, is there still a need for Tylan 50 or other antibiotic? She still has zero discharge, swelling, or lethargy and is eating and drinking well.
Thanks!

 

[Eggcessive]

I wouldn’t give the antibiotic if you feel it is not needed. It won’t help IB anyway, but it can be hard to tell IB from a mild mycoplasma (MG) sometimes. Only a test could identify either one. But if symptoms worsen, you can try it. Many people like to avoid antibiotics at all cost to prevent antibiotic resistant bacteria.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

had not read anything about it not being approved for birds otherwise I wouldn't have accepted it from my vet

Not approved... I should clarify this too, sorry.

Doesn't mean don't use under any circumstances... It does mean that it hasn't been tested well enough to verify certain things well enough like how long the withdrawal period for eggs or meat might be. Or it might mean that nobody lobbied the FDA well enough. It *may* (I don't know) be approved in other countries but not yet the US. And MANY things are used by doctors to treat something that is off label... or not what it was made for. I don't know if that is the correct way to describe it or not but there are other threads about the term "unapproved". Having discussed something with your vet is the correct way to have done something. Even if or when I may disagree with a vet, they are the professional. Their experience is far different than mine and surely their knowledge. That doesn't mean they are always correct... not all vet are created equal. But certainly don't distrust him based on my statement , please!

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I have one question- if her respiratory ailment seems to be improving well, is there still a need for Tylan 50 or other antibiotic?

I know nothing about antibiotics and don't use them. IF it WAS working on something, I would follow the recommended full course of treatment to help prevent the resistance mentioned...

Sometimes people give antibiotics hoping to fight a secondary infection that may or may not exist, I think... even though they don't do anything for a viral infection.

If you'd like everybody to eat the same feed you can try a flock raiser, grower, or all flock... just varying protein levels, and provide oyster shell on the side for the laying ladies when your other feeds run out. This also works well when you have older gals that molt. All my birds get it start to finish. The starter feed won't hurt your layer either if they have OS (oyster shell) available.

I suggest not getting ANY birds that have been to anyone's pasture or under their hen. Too much risk for too many parasites and diseases and things spread quickly among poultry. I hope health stays strong among your flock though... and I would definitely put a call into the supplier to ask about symptoms among their flock. Really some things can pass to the eggs to so even incubator chicks can be scary.

 

[Epiphany]

So I went to check her today and I have one more question (sorry).
1.) Saw no lice today, but I bought lice powder for birds just in case.
2.) When she breathes, there's no sound in her lungs, it's like right up in her nasal cavity and it's a really dry sound, just kinda like a sharp sigh, and I hear no mucous or anything. Also, none of my other chickens are having this problem at all and they were around her for a whole day while she was like this. Is it possible that her nasal structure is just messed up (due to the fact that the guy I bought her and her siblings from was breeding the same rooster and hen every time and some of their chicks had messed up beaks- wasn't aware of that at the time) or that she has something stuck in her nose? I'm mainly asking because she's been sitting in a box for five days now and if she's probably fine, I'd like to get her out to her flock again so that she can live nicely (they also have mild lice so that wouldn't be a problem.
Thanks!

 

[EggSighted4Life]

. Also, none of my other chickens are having this problem at all and they were around her for a whole day while she was like this.

All were exposed I would keep them together.

Is it possible that her nasal structure is just messed up (due to the fact that the guy I bought her and her siblings from was breeding the same rooster and hen every time

Breeding the same hen and rooster together isn't a problem unless they are brother and sister of parents who were also brother and sister.. of parents that were brother and sister. in other words extreme inbreeding.

But a lone hen and rooster could produce offspring for their entire lives together and that doesn't make the offspring that are born later in life more retarded than the ones born earlier.

Now if those parent don't have beak issues but are seeing it in their chicks then ONE of them at least has it hidden somewhere in their DNA... if not both of them having it hidden and it expresses itself only sometimes. I am still learning this whole genetic thing and haven't dealt with beak issues. I would think they could be seen at hatch. Also, if a chick hatches with a deformity doesn't make it have bloody spots (I have to go back to read the original post). But from what I can remember you were describing illness.

 

[Epiphany]

All were exposed I would keep them together.

I put her back in yesterday evening, she was happy to be back but her siblings were very aggressive to her (as expected, I suppose). She wouldn't come out of the coop or off the roost until later in the morning than everyone else, but seems OK. I'll keep checking for lice and respiratory noise.
Anything else I should be keeping an eye out for while she's recovering?
Thank you!
(sorry this has been going on for so long)

 

[EggSighted4Life]

You don't have to apologize! Most of us who help are undoubtedly doing it partly out of our selfishness and the reward that comes in our hearts from trying to at least help others. A way to focus not on our own issues, whatever they may be.

Did you actually treat the lice on all the birds? If not then it needs to be done.

If you have to quarantine anyone in the future from your own flock, you can consider doing it where they are still in sight of the rest of the flock to help avoid pecking order issues upon return.

I can't remember exactly where we are at and what we've done already... but I would consider supplementing a vitamin or probiotic product short term (never longer than 10 days).

Hope she continues to improve!