Board of Health against quarantine (oh, the irony)

[fox623]

It was more of an oversight on our part, allowing her to see the garage. We did not think that we had anything to hide. Live and learn.

Unfortunately, the word "incubation" is used a lot on this forum, so my searches were a bit fruitless. Does this seem accurate, for diseases that affect chickens?

Disease	Vector	Incubation
Coccidiosis	Parasite	5–6 days
Avian Encephalomyelitis	Virus	1–7 days
Avian Influenza	Virus	1–7 days
Fowlpox	Virus	4–10 days
Infectious Bronchitis	Virus	24–48 hours
Marek Disease	Virus	30–120 days
Newcastle Disease	Virus	2–15 days
Colibacillosis	Bacteria	1–3 days
Mycoplasmosis	Bacteria	6–21 days
Salmonellosis	Bacteria	12–72 hours
Aspergillosis	Fungus	2–5 days
Favus	Fungus	??

 

[DickMidnight]

It was more of an oversight on our part, allowing her to see the garage. We did not think that we had anything to hide. Live and learn.

Unfortunately, the word "incubation" is used a lot on this forum, so my searches were a bit fruitless. Does this seem accurate, for diseases that affect chickens?

Disease	Vector	Incubation
Coccidiosis	Parasite	5–6 days
Avian Encephalomyelitis	Virus	1–7 days
Avian Influenza	Virus	1–7 days
Fowlpox	Virus	4–10 days
Infectious Bronchitis	Virus	24–48 hours
Marek Disease	Virus	30–120 days
Newcastle Disease	Virus	2–15 days
Colibacillosis	Bacteria	1–3 days
Mycoplasmosis	Bacteria	6–21 days
Salmonellosis	Bacteria	12–72 hours
Aspergillosis	Fungus	2–5 days
Favus	Fungus	??

i'm not the one you want to ask for this. @Wyorp Rock or @azygous should be able to help you out when it comes to the health of your chicks.

 

[McChooky]

If you can't quarantine them 30 days I wouldn't add them. 9 days isn't enough time.

 

[azygous]

As far as your improvised quarantine goes, it has likely achieved its purpose. Be aware that the quarantine mostly is effective for identifying contagious diseases such as coccidiosis and Micoplasma g. Other diseases are not so common and you'll just need to hope they aren't being brought in. Quarantine does nothing whatsoever about preventing avian viruses. Chickens can be symptom free and still carry the disease and transmit it to your current flock.

As far as the permit/inspection issues, you are much more patient and cordial about it than I am. I tend to fly into a total meltdown of rage and indignation when I encounter such ignorance and inflexibility on the part of an employee who has the authority to make life difficult for you, made much more difficult by their ignorance of the issues with which they are dealing. If you are not able to get the inspector to understand the nature of quarantine and that it is strictly a temporary thing, then it's hopeless. Your options are few.

Before I turned into an octogenarian and ran plum out of patience and energy, I would call the employee's boss an explain what you encountered with the employee, stating that ignorance and inflexibility is counter to everything the ordinance is trying to accomplish, that more training of the inspectors as to the nature of things would be helpful to everyone, etc. But after eighty years and seeing how stupid is now an epidemic in this country, I am not hopeful such energy and time would produce any positive results. Just be happy this inspector didn't red-line you entirely.

 

[DickMidnight]

Before I turned into an octogenarian and ran plum out of patience and energy, I would call the employee's boss an explain what you encountered with the employee, stating that ignorance and inflexibility is counter to everything the ordinance is trying to accomplish, that more training of the inspectors as to the nature of things would be helpful to everyone, etc.

the employee was just doing their job. they did nothing wrong.

if the bylaw says chickens can't be anywhere but the designated coop, and the inspector sees them elsewhere, well what would you like them to do?

they don't know your intentions, or even that your stated intentions are the truth.

i've never understood this point of view at all.

 

[azygous]

the employee was just doing their job. they did nothing wrong.

if the bylaw says chickens can't be anywhere but the designated coop, and the inspector sees them elsewhere, well what would you like them to do?

they don't know your intentions, or even that your stated intentions are the truth.

i've never understood this point of view at all.

The thing is nothing in life is black and white in reality. Rules and laws do not always take this into account and make necessary adjustments. When compliance has been achieved with one small exception of a situation that is not permanent and will not continue to exist after another week or two, that rule is flawed and adjustments need to be made to accommodate such temporary and helpful exceptions.

Not everyone is able to consider nuances to things that the rules don't take into consideration. An employee sent out to enforce the rules is afraid of losing their job if they stray out of the strict boundaries established by the rules. Taking the matter to the department heads and negotiating a reasonable compromise is always permitted in our "free country". It's worth a shot. There's maybe a one percent chance you'll be able to talk to someone who isn't afraid to think outside the guidelines and make a judgement as to what constitutes reason. If you have the time and energy, it's the only way you are going to see things improve. Improving on the way we govern ourselves is a worthy endeavor in my opinion.

 

[DickMidnight]

The thing is nothing in life is black and white in reality. Rules and laws do not always take this into account and make necessary adjustments. When compliance has been achieved with one small exception of a situation that is not permanent and will not continue to exist after another week or two, that rule is flawed and adjustments need to be made to accommodate such temporary and helpful exceptions.

Not everyone is able to consider nuances to things that the rules don't take into consideration. An employee sent out to enforce the rules is afraid of losing their job if they stray out of the strict boundaries established by the rules. Taking the matter to the department heads and negotiating a reasonable compromise is always permitted in our "free country". It's worth a shot. There's maybe a one percent chance you'll be able to talk to someone who isn't afraid to think outside the guidelines and make a judgement as to what constitutes reason. If you have the time and energy, it's the only way you are going to see things improve. Improving on the way we govern ourselves is a worthy endeavor in my opinion.

@azygous there’s no such thing as compliance with exceptions. you either comply, or you don’t.

you’re correct that life is rarely black and white, but laws and rules are. and for good reason.

when a rule has some wiggle room and is open to interpretation, it will get abused. it’s just the way people are - they take miles when they’re offered inches. if it’s ok to quarantine birds temporarily somewhere else on the property, the next thing you know people will have a second coop where they’re always “quarantining” their new chicks.

that’s not to say that i agree with the law where the OP lives. there’s a lot that i don’t like about it. but the fact remains - you’re either on the right side or the wrong side of the rule. there is no “i followed the rule but…”

in your first post in this thread you advocated for giving the inspector a piece of your mind. IMO that does nothing but weaken your case if and when you do call their higher ups to plead your case. you’re in violation of the rule and now you yelled at the employee who came out to do their job. what do you gain by being wrong twice there?

all that being said - i don’t like the rule. it’s stupid. but it’s written the way it is for a reason. if i owned birds there and was the op i likely would’ve just waited for the inspection to take place before adding new birds and having to quarantine them. once they’re satisfied with your setup, i doubt they’re coming back.

and that’s not an admonishment of the OP. they got caught by a surprise inspection. not much you can really do there. plus, i have the advantage of hindsight.

 

[fox623]

I appreciate your valuable feedback. Thank you all. I'm not entirely sure how to appeal to the Board of Health, but I'll look into it for others in our town who may encounter this same situation. A 30-day carve-out for adding new chicks to a flock is not unreasonable, especially since there's a six-hen limit.

We are both trying to see all the sides of our situation. I understand that the inspector was performing her duties, but I'd be lying if I claimed that my partner and I did not share a few laughs at her rigidity and make the joke that she was sent by his ex-wife.

At the end of the day, we are all human, doing our absolute best. Neither my partner nor I committed the entire regulatory code to memory and did not consider that quarantine would violate what we agreed to when getting the permit. We also failed to consider the locational implications of adding chicken poop to our existing compost bin.

For the remainder of quarantine, we are going to move the new girls into a bathroom, which is technically a violation, but there is no way we are letting anyone inside uninvited.

 

[SmiYa0126]

The thing is nothing in life is black and white in reality. Rules and laws do not always take this into account and make necessary adjustments. When compliance has been achieved with one small exception of a situation that is not permanent and will not continue to exist after another week or two, that rule is flawed and adjustments need to be made to accommodate such temporary and helpful exceptions.

Not everyone is able to consider nuances to things that the rules don't take into consideration. An employee sent out to enforce the rules is afraid of losing their job if they stray out of the strict boundaries established by the rules. Taking the matter to the department heads and negotiating a reasonable compromise is always permitted in our "free country". It's worth a shot. There's maybe a one percent chance you'll be able to talk to someone who isn't afraid to think outside the guidelines and make a judgement as to what constitutes reason. If you have the time and energy, it's the only way you are going to see things improve. Improving on the way we govern ourselves is a worthy endeavor in my opinion.

Agreed, especially since this is the better way to prevent disease. It's not frivolous.

 

[raingarden]

You're trying to put a square peg in a round hole. Either move some place where the local culture is compatible to your desired lifestyle, or accept the local culture for what it is.