Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[BarnGoddess01]

I'm just wondering at what point you consider the stock from a "new line." Although I suspect the answer is, "If it causes problems it's a new line. If it doesn't cause more problems than it solves, it's the same line."

Sarah

I was at a seminar this afternoon that discussed this very question. The presentation was done with Bantam White Rocks by someone VERY successful showing his birds throughout North America. He has been line breeding for years and pretty much happy with the results, particularly with his females. He is doing well with his males as well but the males have a mild thumbprint in their combs. Still, they win, but from a breeders perspective, he would like to improve the combs on his males if he can. He recently chose a new male that he feels compliments his line and has a superior comb. He intends to start a second line using his females with this male. But he will still carry on with his original line as well. If he likes what he sees after 2 generations from the new male, he will consider this a second line and will make decisions about his first, original line after that.

 

[fowlman01]

try this link: http://www.oneearthfarm.com/chickens/brahmas.html
they are expensive but exactly what you were wanting. and sooo gorgeous!
I think that sounds like a great plan!

While they may appear gorgeous to many.........they appear skinny and of not very good APA type to me. They are also breeding Brahma's that are not recognized by the APA.
Good healthy birds that would fit someones needs, but those are not heritage type birds.

When I say I plant my culls in the garden I mean that I euthanize them and they become fertilizer. I only do that to birds with severe faults or faults I think may be genetic.

Walt

 

[thedragonlady]

Thank you for your input. I don't mind them running around together or even the roosters doing what roosters do and jumping everything with an apron, but my main concern was the fact that if I let them do that, I wouldn't know which eggs were pure and which eggs were not...to further the program. So - what you said made sense. I can keep them running around together, but collect the eggs and eat them (no problem there, we love eggs)...then when I want to get 'down to business' I can separate them at that time? I think that's basically what you said but I'm just making sure. That's **much** easier than the confusion I was putting in my brain. haha

I think I read somewhere that hens can produce eggs from a certain roo for up to 3 weeks after the "deed", so I would have to separate them all and then wait 3 weeks, and then after that it's okay to start hatching the eggs and be certain they're pure, right? How man hens and roosters should I have in 1 "pen" when it comes time to do this?

After reading the ALBC on heritage defined - I don't see anywhere where I'd have to have nothing but that breed participate in development of the chicks. It just says they have to have heritage parents, grandparents and multi-generational proof of heritage. That being said - could I hatch the actual eggs under a broody Silkie?

You can certainly free range all breeds together providing your Roos don't fight. If you are going to breed multi breeds, you'll need pens for each breed at breeding time. If you want to be sure of who is producing what , you do pair matings. I prefer trio matings., but on occasion I do pair matings, as I'm doing with my English birds. The resulting chicks will be bred to a 1/2 brother, who is out of SOP hens next year. A few 50% will be bred back to their father, and a K will be bred back to his mother. This is provided Mother Nature doesn't throw me a monkey wrench !

 

[Yellow House Farm]

While they may appear gorgeous to many.........they appear skinny and of not very good APA type to me. They are also breeding Brahma's that are not recognized by the APA.
Good healthy birds that would fit someones needs, but those are not heritage type birds.

I have to agree with Walt. They're skinny; however, the photos I see of their Brahmas look young. Still, as Walt pointed out, they're not tradtional Brahmas. To each his own, but it would seem that if one wants laced birds, there are heritage laced Wyandottes, laced Polish, and Andalusians in desperate need of devoted and serious breeders, and tradtional Brahmas are also in need of devotees. Playing with colors is fine, but to what end? I, personally, just think of them as a distraction. This year, in our region, there was some one showing laced "Orpingtons", and all of the more serious breeders just rolled their eyes. They couldn't win. They had no history. They were far off from achieving Standard quality. Why not just work on some strong Orpingtons?

What I also find sad is when people new to breeding are sold these birds as "heritage" birds, believing, and being led to believe, that they are attaining traditional fowl of quality. For example, an acquaintance of a friend was so excited to show my neighbor her rare "heritage" fowl.. When my friend arrived, she was dismayed to find a flock of lovely laced nothings. The person was so sad to find out that her birds couldn't be shown and worse had zero history. She had invested so much into infrastructure. Moreover, it was so late in the season, she had wasted the year. It was unfortunate.

 

[CluckyCharms]

I have to agree with Walt. They're skinny; however, the photos I see of their Brahmas look young. Still, as Walt pointed out, they're not tradtional Brahmas. To each his own, but it would seem that if one wants laced birds, there are heritage laced Wyandottes, laced Polish, and Andalusians in desperate need of devoted and serious breeders, and tradtional Brahmas are also in need of devotees. Playing with colors is fine, but to what end? I, personally, just think of them as a distraction. This year, in our region, there was some one showing laced "Orpingtons", and all of the more serious breeders just rolled their eyes. They couldn't win. They had no history. They were far off from achieving Standard quality. Why not just work on some strong Orpingtons?

What I also find sad is when people new to breeding are sold these birds as "heritage" birds, believing, and being led to believe, that they are attaining traditional fowl of quality. For example, an acquaintance of a friend was so excited to show my neighbor her rare "heritage" fowl.. When my friend arrived, she was dismayed to find a flock of lovely laced nothings. The person was so sad to find out that her birds couldn't be shown and worse had zero history. She had invested so much into infrastructure. Moreover, it was so late in the season, she had wasted the year. It was unfortunate.

oh no...laced polish are considered a heritage breed?? That's not good for me, because now I have to add another one to my list of wants.

Your second paragraph concerns me because you're basically talking about people such as myself, who have a very easy time being naive and gullible when it comes to chickens. So...maybe you all can offer some advice regarding *true* heritage breeders, how you can tell the difference between a genuine one and a con artist - and...once you have distinguished between the two - where do you find them? It's very sad about the acquaintance of your friend, I'm sure she was simply devastated to learn of her flock's true identity.

 

[campinechickens]

While they may appear gorgeous to many.........they appear skinny and of not very good APA type to me. They are also breeding Brahma's that are not recognized by the APA.
Good healthy birds that would fit someones needs, but those are not heritage type birds.

Walt

I have to agree with Walt.  They're skinny; however, the photos I see of their Brahmas look young.  Still, as Walt pointed out, they're not tradtional Brahmas.  To each his own, but it would seem that if one wants laced birds, there are heritage laced Wyandottes, laced Polish, and Andalusians in desperate need of devoted and serious breeders, and tradtional Brahmas are also in need of devotees.  Playing with colors is fine, but to what end?  I, personally, just think of them as a distraction.  This year, in our region, there was some one showing laced "Orpingtons", and all of the more serious breeders just rolled their eyes.  They couldn't win.  They had no history.  They were far off from achieving Standard quality.  Why not just work on some strong Orpingtons? 

What I also find sad is when people new to breeding are sold these birds as "heritage" birds, believing, and being led to believe, that they are attaining traditional fowl of quality.  For example, an acquaintance of a friend was so excited to show my neighbor her rare "heritage" fowl..  When my friend arrived, she was dismayed to find a flock of lovely laced nothings.  The person was so sad to find out that her birds couldn't be shown and worse had zero history.  She had invested so much into infrastructure.  Moreover, it was so late in the season, she had wasted the year.  It was unfortunate.

I went back and double checked the website, and nowhere does it say they that are heritage birds. He admits that he bred for that color and that it is not recognized. He has been breeding them for meat and egg laying quality, brains, foraging ability and beauty. I'm sorry if I misunderstood, but it sounded like that was exactly what she was wanting.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Your second paragraph concerns me because you're basically talking about people such as myself, who have a very easy time being naive and gullible when it comes to chickens. So...maybe you all can offer some advice regarding *true* heritage breeders, how you can tell the difference between a genuine one and a con artist - and...once you have distinguished between the two - where do you find them? It's very sad about the acquaintance of your friend, I'm sure she was simply devastated to learn of her flock's true identity.

This is precisely why those of us new to poultry need to have a trusted mentor to guide us.

 

[CluckyCharms]

Also (another question sorry)

There is a breed I want, and it was recognized by the APA. Due to lack of interest from breeders (crazy if you ask me) it was removed. According to its initiation/acceptance date by the APA this bird would qualify as a heritage breed if it were to be recognized by the APA again.

...how do you make or at least give it your all - to get a chicken *re*recognized by the APA after it's already been removed? Also - would the *new* date of initiation into the APA's standard be applicable for that breed (no longer making them heritage) or would it revert to the initial acceptance date when they were first accepted (prior to removal)..which would make them heritage applicable since they were not removed from the list until 1875 (way before mid 20th century).

thanks in advance

 

[CluckyCharms]

This is precisely why those of us new to poultry need to have a trusted mentor to guide us.

agree =)

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Quote:
Even with a mentor, we'll probably still make mistakes (as we probably should) but hopefully, our mentors will help us to learn meaningful lessons from those mistakes and move forward in a positive way.