Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[CluckyCharms]

Before people begin fantasizing about heritage birds and breeding them, let's take a moment for a reality check. It seems the beginners who live in the city, who are limited, by ordinance, to 6 hens, allowed no roosters, who have only had chickens in their bathroom or backyard tiny coopette for just a few weeks, ought to really master the whole keeping of birds first. I'm trying to say here what needs to be said, not necessarily what folks want to hear.

Use some hatchery grade hens to practice on. Get used to raising out chicks, integrating birds, living with them for a few years and experience the entire cycle for a couple of years. Feeding, coop cleaning, life, death, euthanizing, disease, the whole deal. If you succeed with those hatchery birds and still want to do this in two years, great. Until then?

Sell your city house and buy yourself a place in the country where you really can breed quality birds, keep crowing roosters, learn all about rooster behaviors up close and personal, build multiple coops, pens and barns. Meanwhile, sit in on some local breed club meetings. Go to regional APA sanctioned poultry shows, look at the fancy birds, submit to a mentor, meet some people, and spend a whole lot of time as a student and spend a lot more time just listening.

Otherwise, this is all just an internet fantasy.

I fully agree with this, and I'm the one who is allowed 6-10 hens and no roosters. That being said, I've made it very clear several times that my plan to preserve certain breeds, and breed for quality, won't begin for another 2 years. Granted, I'm not fond of waiting 2 years, but it's to make darn well sure that this is something I want to pursue 2 years from now, and not just a "pipe dream" in the current moment. It was my husband's idea to make me wait and while I do think it's a fair arrangement, I'm certainly not going to spend the next 2 years continuing to be clueless about heritage breeds (or any breed for that matter) and I think I should be spending that time learning everything I can about what I plan on doing. It's not an internet dream in my situation at all. I'm looking forward to learning about the ins and outs of raising chickens during this time, with the chickens I already have as well.

With regard to the shows, since I got into chickens so late there wasn't much available for show attending this year, I only had the chance to go to one. I'll look into some breed club meetings though - that's really good advice and I thank you for the information.

Yes, the Partridge Chantecler is a heritage breed and a lovely bird to have around and work with. It is tough to find good ones, but they are out there. The feather quality and type of many of the hatchery birds is not there, but I have seen some of John Blehm's birds and they were nice.

Thank you for your information and input. Yeh, it's hard to find good ones based on the SOP anyway...I've seen a lot of pictures of them, but when I look at the pictures and read the SOP and compare the two they're not what I would think. But, then again I'm new and it would be nice to see some that are exactly what they are supposed to look like so I know. lol Thanks again for the information, I really do like the coloring on them!

If you are looking for top quality fowl to start by,
1. asking here;
2. check ads and compare show stats in Poultry Press;
3. contact national breed club and browse breeder directory while comparing show stats.
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Good educational starter package for novice breeders;
1. APA SOP,
2. subscription to Poultry Press;
3. Book, Genetics of Chicken Colours-The Basics; 4. book, Genetics of Chicken Extremities;
(or similar books, these are the best in the field)
5. Join your chosen national breed Club and utilize their educational opportunities;
6. The classic breeder-authored book on your breed.
All of these things can be found by a quick search on the Net.
Do not ask me for URL's. If one doesn't start gathering these educational materials,
esp. the SOP, how can they be expected to be taken seriously?
So over pointless questions on this list,
Karen

It's not hard to find top quality fowl. What's difficult is to convince the breeder you are serious. If one doesn't start showing the poultry world they are seriously educating him/her self, how can they expect the breeder to take them seriously? That education involves more than a constant barage of questions which don't result in conclusions, just more questions. One needs to show the poultry world they are moving in a direction, not just swirling around in endless conversation.
karen

More good information...thank you.

 

[nyanamia]

Before people begin fantasizing about heritage birds and breeding them, let's take a moment for a reality check. It seems the beginners who live in the city, who are limited, by ordinance, to 6 hens, allowed no roosters, who have only had chickens in their bathroom or backyard tiny coopette for just a few weeks, ought to really master the whole keeping of birds first. I'm trying to say here what needs to be said, not necessarily what folks want to hear.

Use some hatchery grade hens to practice on. Get used to raising out chicks, integrating birds, living with them for a few years and experience the entire cycle for a couple of years. Feeding, coop cleaning, life, death, euthanizing, disease, the whole deal. If you succeed with those hatchery birds and still want to do this in two years, great. Until then?

Sell your city house and buy yourself a place in the country where you really can breed quality birds, keep crowing roosters, learn all about rooster behaviors up close and personal, build multiple coops, pens and barns. Meanwhile, sit in on some local breed club meetings. Go to regional APA sanctioned poultry shows, look at the fancy birds, submit to a mentor, meet some people, and spend a whole lot of time as a student and spend a lot more time just listening.

Otherwise, this is all just an internet fantasy.

I'm glad to hear you say this, because that is my plan. Sort of. Hopefully I will be able to skip the "urban 4 hens and no rooster" step and go straight to the "figuring out how to keep hatchery birds alive on free range" step. One day.
Can anyone tell me if there are any APA sanctioned shows in Texas? I have looked up TX shows but in my newbness I couldn't see which ones were APA. I'm in the Dallas area.

 

[CluckyCharms]

a) Do any of you have an "egglayers only" pen for your pullet culls, or a "meatbirds" pen for your male culls or do you just cull them (either by selling, killing, etc)? I don't like the thought of eating or selling to eat - fertilized eggs from a heritage breed. =/ I figured if I keep the pullets that would-be culls separated - just to lay eggs for this purpose, it might be a good idea. If it's not a good idea let me know why, please.

b) Going from Fred's Hens advice to sit in on club meetings - what do you do if there are no meetings in your area (or anywhere within driving distance) for that particular breed? Would it be okay to just find *any* breed meeting and sit in on that one, even if it's not the breed you're interested in? I'm bound to learn something about chickens in general, and not just that breed, right?

There are a lot of kennel meetings and dog breeder meetings all over the place but chickens? Not having much luck thus far, but I will keep digging. :] I put a few phone calls in thus far as well, and if they don't call back by tomorrow I'll keep trying.

 

[NanaKat]

Here is what I do with my set up. A lot depends on how much space you have available and how you utilize your pens spring thru fall and in the winter. I save eggs from breedng pens in the spring and early summer before it gets too hot.
In winter all females run together with the layers with the current breeder males. And cockerels and roos are kept in a separate pen...to keep the peace.

Hens that will go into breeding pens are identified and observed. When I cull pullets, they go into my layer pen.

As for cockerels, when not breeding, I keep a rooster pen.
Young cockerels that without doubt will be culled will be fattened in a meat bird pen.
Cockerels that are going into a breeding pen in the spring, will have a special leg band. I continue to watch the borderline cockerels since I raise large fowl. Sometimes these borderline LF cockerels become nice looking roos after their final molt. If I have several exceptional roos, I will rotate them into a flock of hens and keep separate records on those eggs.

Once I set the breeding roosters with hens in their pens in the spring, I will have extra borderline roosters this year for the first time. I'm thinking of making some pairs or trios available to 4Hers in my area.

 

[buffalogal]

It's not hard to find top quality fowl. What's difficult is to convince the breeder you are serious. If one doesn't start showing the poultry world they are seriously educating him/her self, how can they expect the breeder to take them seriously? That education involves more than a constant barage of questions which don't result in conclusions, just more questions. One needs to show the poultry world they are moving in a direction, not just swirling around in endless conversation.

I belong to a mailing list that has, as part of their requirements that "You must own at least one book about poultry, and you are expected to have read it".

I "got my start" in chickens with a mixed batch from cackle hatchery. I had one or two of several breeds they offered that I thought would be fun to have, including 'easter Eggers". 9Stillhave descendants of those EEs in my yard flock) when we moved to a large farm a couple years later, I was ready to try my hand at 'raising a breed" and selected the Anconas over 20 years ago by ordering them from McMurray. I had Dalmatians at the time, and thought the contrast would be nice. It was, and I've enjoyed the birds so much they outlasted the dogs. Now, McMurray might have had pretty good birds in the 60's but by the time I ordered my birds, they were just average hatchery stock. Not complete "junk", but nothing that would be competitive beyond the local county fair. It's been fun and challenging breeding them up. I just added rosecomb genetics to my Anconas, so it's a bit like starting all over again with them.

Anyway, about 6, maybe 7 years into the Anconas, I was in an online conversation with Mark Fields about breeding chickens in general, and eventually, Dominiques specifically. He met me at a show in Guthrie and *gave* me a fine trio to start with. I joined the breed club, looked up another local breeder Jack Bloomer and went to his house to swap a poultry book for another trio. We hit it off so well, I ended up bringing home about 15 birds. He kept saying "if you take that pullet, you need that male to go with her..."Just a super nice man.

Note: at that point I had already learned how to keep chickens alive longer than one year,
and I had already been selectively breeding and improving a flock of purebred birds for several years before I felt ready for the challenge of taking on a second breed.

When I decided I was ready for a third breed, I chose the Buckeye, both for it's interesting back story, and the fact that it was such a good contrast (type and color) to the birds I already had.
I spent no small amount of time on the internet. Remember, Poultry Neophytes, "Google is your Friend".
I sought out the actual breed club, not just an informal yahoo mailing list, and contacted Laura at Pathfinder's Farm about hatching eggs, which seemed like an inexpensive way to have a few around to "try them out". By that time, I had two decades' worth of experience with raising all kinds of poultry, but especially bred to standard chickens. LSS, I enjoyed the Buckeyes so much I've since ordered chicks from Urch and again, from Laura, and am feeling confident enough with my breeding them that I've got a few entered in the show in Shawnee. It will be good to see if I'm developing an "eye" for the Buckeyes.

My advice for anyone starting out: if you're still at the point where everything looks good, indulge, get one or two of whatever and get it out of your system. You'll quickly decide if you want to deal with the idiosyncrasies of the breed are worth it, and in the meantime, you'll be getting the basics of poultry keeping down. You'll loose birds to cocci and learn about worming and parasites and predators and housing and hatching and chicken shows and the NPIP on your starter birds. When you've got *that* part down, join the breed club, and start contacting breeders of whatever rare/heritage breed has captured your heart. If your intentions are on the mark, a good breeder will recognize it.

 

[cgmccary]

Quote:

 

[buffalogal]

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[BarnGoddess01]

Quote:
This, I think, is closest to what my story is going to be -- I hope. I'm still just at the stage where I've acquired the best I can get my hands on after moving all the junk into the layer pen. F1s will be laying in the spring so we'll go for F2s and hope for the best!!!

Was just given a copy of "Practical inbreeding" (for the pedigree livestock breeder) by W. Watmough. First published in 1955 in the UK. A quick scan: it looks very interesting. (This guy sounds just like you, Walt, in his approach to the value of genetics in poultry breeding!!!)

 

[BarnGoddess01]

a) Do any of you have an "egglayers only" pen for your pullet culls, or a "meatbirds" pen for your male culls or do you just cull them (either by selling, killing, etc)? I don't like the thought of eating or selling to eat - fertilized eggs from a heritage breed. =/ I figured if I keep the pullets that would-be culls separated - just to lay eggs for this purpose, it might be a good idea. If it's not a good idea let me know why, please.

b) Going from Fred's Hens advice to sit in on club meetings - what do you do if there are no meetings in your area (or anywhere within driving distance) for that particular breed? Would it be okay to just find *any* breed meeting and sit in on that one, even if it's not the breed you're interested in? I'm bound to learn something about chickens in general, and not just that breed, right?

There are a lot of kennel meetings and dog breeder meetings all over the place but chickens? Not having much luck thus far, but I will keep digging. :] I put a few phone calls in thus far as well, and if they don't call back by tomorrow I'll keep trying.

Experienced poultry breeders are just that, experienced poultry breeders. They may not be fully aware of the fine details of your breed of choice but they know how to evaluate a bird - and you can learn that from them. So, yes, join any bunch you can.

I keep a layer coop. Toss all the female junk in there and they entertain me in the yard. I eat the surplus males but I can also use the layer pen to grow them out a little longer if I'm curious about them. If you don't eat the surplus birds/eggs they just go to waste. The whole point of heritage birds was usually the fact that they could sustain the family. Provide you with breakfast everyday and a nice meal in the evening as well. Heritage breeds were not meant to just stand around caged and look pretty. They were bred and maintained with a purpose far beyond the SOP.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

It's not hard to find top quality fowl. What's difficult is to convince the breeder you are serious. If one doesn't start showing the poultry world they are seriously educating him/her self, how can they expect the breeder to take them seriously? That education involves more than a constant barage of questions which don't result in conclusions, just more questions. One needs to show the poultry world they are moving in a direction, not just swirling around in endless conversation.
karen

I have actually found the top breeders fabulously helpful, even eager to get me involved. I have been VERY lucky acquiring stock. I think you show them you are serious by showing up and sticking with it. Join the clubs. Show up at the meetings. Go to the shows. Educate yourself on your own time so the questions you ask them reflect that you are making an effort and heading in the right direction. And take care of your stock. That is of critical importance. They don't want to find out they've passed on valuable material only to have you kill it through over-crowding, laziness, stupidity, or neglect. I am at the point where I literally have to tell them, "No! I'm out of space. But thank you!!!" But I can still tap them for knowledge and experience, and I do.