Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Marengoite]

Any way dont get bent out of shape over those list and fads and wanting to cross breeds. Just make a list of five breeds you would like to locate. Tell us what they are. We have enough connections with the top judges in the country some who come on this thread to locate you some good stock. You dont have to get the birds from the top breeder in the USA like Black Jersey Giants but he may have sold some of his birds to someone a year or so ago and they will ship you some chicks, eggs or adult birds. If you locate this family you can make a road trip with the family and pick up say two males and three females and you are ready to go. It fun that way and you will appreciate what you have. If you dont want to show them that is OK we need you o share your blood lines with others like your self years down the road. We would just like to find birds or breeds that are as close to true to breed appearance so you wont waist years of work trying to maintain or improve them. Remember these large fowl cost allot of money to feed and grow up. You got to learn how to raise them and breed them the smart way so you wont get discouraged and then give up like so many have done be for us. bob

Thanks, Bob.

Sounds like a lot of wisdom there. Since I'm less than a year into chickens, I'll probably stick with my Buckeyes and Hamburgs. If things work out this spring I'll have to put in an order with Paul Hardy on some of his birds. I got the Meyer birds last year to see what they were like and enjoyed the crazy little nutjobs enough to see what real LF Hamburgs are like. I think between those two breeds and the turkeys I will have coming in from Porter's, that should keep met busy for another season.

But I really do like the looks of Blue Andalusians, if only those huge combs and wattles could handle these Ohio winters...

And those GS Barred rocks. Give me another year or two and I may be swapping out my hatchery utility rocks for those...

Thanks,

rick

 

[3riverschick]

There are a lot of Light Sussex out there...but then again, what quality? A lot of the Aussie birds which are not APA quality. Plus Aussie/US crosses which are still a work in progress. Some Aussie crosses invloving strains which are multiple US lines. A lot of hard , dedicated work going into successfully melding the US lines. And successfully melding the US
line(s) with the Aussie line. The off-shoot of all that is a plethora of birds but only a small number of them are show quality. Really there are three families of Light Sussex now in the US.
American (pure and mixed US/AU), Australian (pure and mixed US/AU) and British (pure).
Best,
Karen

 

[3riverschick]

OK, now I am really confused.

Your argument is that even if we duplicated the crosses that constructed the breed, we still would not have "TRULY" remade the breed, even if it fit the SOP because there is more to the breed than its appearance. If I understand what you have said, it is that we can have a bird that in all points conforms to the SOP, but is not "truly" that breed of bird because it lacks something that is not listed in the SOP.

If conformity to the SOP does not define a breed, then what does? We don't keep pedigrees on these birds like registered Holstein cows or Berkshire hogs. We don't have a Stud book like dog and horse breeders. If it isn't the SOP, then what is it that defines the breed? The breed club?

And what is the indefinable something that is necessary to make it "truly" the breed? Now you have me at a loss because I thought I understood this and apparently I don't.

rick

I think the other poster is talking about utility qualities. Egg producing ability. , etc.
Karen

 

[FOGELLY]

Thanks Ron, it means a lot to me.  I spend most of my time now educating young folks on agriculture, gardening and poultry from a sustainable point of view.  I love it when my own grandkids come up and the chickens are hugely popular with them.  They're all city kids now, but who knows?  Life takes different swings.  Meanwhile, the young folks I work with are a real joy as they embrace different aspects of a rural life that someone has to share with them, 'else it be lost.  

I grew up caring for 250 chickens from age 7 or 8 onward.  I was their sole caretaker.  Farm family delegate jobs, you know.  I've got the GS Bared Rocks and sure hope to improve the sad line of RIR I have now.  I love them, but they needs lots and lots of work.   The last and final piece for me will be the White Rocks.  It will be at that point, that'll let all the production birds die out here.  We'll scale down the wife's egg biz to match whatever we get from the heritage birds.  And be content.

Fred, I can remember in the early 70's because of an oil shortage the President did away with Daylight Savings time. I used to to have to feed our chickens every morning before school and we had a lot. I was less than 10 years old and I absolutely hated those chickens for it. Mostly because I was afraid of the dark. I wish I could get that time back. My bother and I worked hard on our farm and spent a good portion of the summer working on my grandpas cattle and dairy farm in Northern Arkansas until I left home. There is so much of that time I wish could have been bottled up and kept forever. Back then we never thought those old community's and lifestyles would disappear. I still close my eyes and think about the general store we would go to everyday with my grandpa. It was the life of the community. It was Post office/ grocery store/ feed store ..... But mostly gathering spot for the local farmers.

Such a wonderful place it was.
Ron

Oh if you ever want a fresh start on Reds let me know. But I am sure yours are much better than you give them credit for.

 

[FeyRaine]

Since the conversation has turned to the old days of Heritage let me share this w/ you.

I'm been trying to get my DH to understand the conversation going on here re: the Hatchery birds vs. "the real thing" and he couldn't understand what I was going on about.

Then (not trying to be mean Cloe, I really feel for you on this) the photos of Cloe's handsome but "not it" BR got posted followed by those photos of real top breeders Heritage BR. So I thought, great I can show my DH what I've been on about and pulled up the Hatchery Bird, all set to "explain it" to DH. He took one look at the Hatchery "BR" & his eyes poped out, his chin dropped and he actually shouted "That is NOT a Barred Rock!" Followed by an list of all the faults (pretty well matching what has been said here) and a theory that Hatchery Bird looked like it had been "crossed w/ Leghorn or something".

It was my turn for my chin to drop hearing all this from the DH who claims to not care & not know about poultry!

He then sheepishly explained (as w/ all the other livestock I already knew he was an excellent judge of) he had all this poultry information poured into him as a very young child by his Great-Grandfather. Their family flock included several of the very breeds we are all now so keen to save. My husband went through a textbook or old timer of this thread rendition of exactly what several breeds "should" look like. His Great-Grandfather passed away about 40 years ago. Oh to have some birds from HIS flocks! But at least I know now I have that expert's eye for Heritage breeds right here in my own DH, who WILL be helping me sort breeders from culls as I take on some of the REAL Heritage birds which the DH now fully understands why I'm so keen on preserving. His Great-Grandpa would be proud...

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

Since the conversation has turned to the old days of Heritage let me share this w/ you.

I'm been trying to get my DH to understand the conversation going on here re: the Hatchery birds vs. "the real thing" and he couldn't understand what I was going on about.

Then (not trying to be mean Cloe, I really feel for you on this) the photos of Cloe's handsome but "not it" BR got posted followed by those photos of real top breeders Heritage BR. So I thought, great I can show my DH what I've been on about and pulled up the Hatchery Bird, all set to "explain it" to DH. He took one look at the Hatchery "BR" & his eyes poped out, his chin dropped and he actually shouted "That is NOT a Barred Rock!" Followed by an list of all the faults (pretty well matching what has been said here) and a theory that Hatchery Bird looked like it had been "crossed w/ Leghorn or something".

It was my turn for my chin to drop hearing all this from the DH who claims to not care & not know about poultry!

He then sheepishly explained (as w/ all the other livestock I already knew he was an excellent judge of) he had all this poultry information poured into him as a very young child by his Great-Grandfather. Their family flock included several of the very breeds we are all now so keen to save. My husband went through a textbook or old timer of this thread rendition of exactly what several breeds "should" look like. His Great-Grandfather passed away about 40 years ago. Oh to have some birds from HIS flocks! But at least I know now I have that expert's eye for Heritage breeds right here in my own DH, who WILL be helping me sort breeders from culls as I take on some of the REAL Heritage birds which the DH now fully understands why I'm so keen on preserving. His Great-Grandpa would be proud...

FeyRaine,

Where are you in TN? I'm in NW Ga and could get you started with some LF Columbian Rocks...

 

[ronott1]

Quote:

There is still 300 miles to Oregon from the Gold country to the Oregon Border....

 

[ronott1]

Quote: The reason you can't get the same Heritage breed, like the Buckeye, by recreating is because the "Foundation" Breeds have been crossed with breeds like leghorns. That is why it is important to keep the foundation breeds pure.

 

[fowlman01]

There is still 300 miles to Oregon from the Gold country to the Oregon Border....

That's a whole state back there. I feel happy when a poultry show trip is 10 hours or less round trip.

Walt

 

[FeyRaine]

Yard Full of Rocks (just love that name btw) I'll pm you about that...

Meanwhile, my DH caught my post & we just had a very interesting conversation about his Great-Grandparent's flock.--

Apparently his Great-grandmother preferred Leghorns as frying birds ("as opposed to a roasting bird there of course being roasting birds and frying birds").
I asked how was it that the older folks talk about "killing *a* bird for Sunday dinner", how could one bird have made fried chicken for everyone?
DH tells me that " ALL their birds where very large, not like chickens for sale in the grocery store today, more like the 15 # turkey we have thawing in the kitchen just now".

His Great-grandmother's strain of White Leghorns (this would have been in mtns of Va 50-150 yrs ago time frame) according to my DH's recollection
"were a dual purpose breed -- eggs & frying birds" a big point was made that the eggs always hatched out almost entirely cockerels, which were very large overall sized, with a good meaty thigh & a good piece of meat on the wing part also, while the hens laid lots of eggs. I'm personally not certain how that compares to anything today, or even to the SOP at the time. I just find it interesting that those were the specific details and qualities of his Great-grandparent's strain of White Leghorns.

My DH also noted that ALL the breeds his Great grandparents kept including Barred Rock and RIR and poss. others? Where much larger than today, my DH says they were all as large as the full grown Bourbon Red Turkey pullets we currently have. I questioned his memory of this and he assured me that these "Roasting Chickens" certainly were the size of any store bought Roasting Turkey we've ever cooked and he recalls his Great Grandmother would in one stroke using a meat cleaver split the *chicken* drumstick to feed 2 grand kids per drumstick (apparently her using the meat clever thus was very memorable).

So when we on this Thread are talking about *Large Fowl* Heritage breeds, keeping in mind that these breeds at one time were large enough that 1 birds really did feed a hungry farm family and the preacher on Sunday might be useful as a benchmark of where the breeds are compared to 50-150 yrs ago. From some of the recent photos on this Thread it looks like getting the size back is going well among breeders, and I look forward to enjoying that too!