Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[3riverschick]

You folks better look at CA...now that is a long state.

Walt

Lived at both ends. Gold Rush Country (for my money the most lovely place in the US), West Covina and San Diego County.
Loving Califonrnia, hating what the politicans have done to it.
Karen

 

[Wynette]

Wow - fantastic discussion these last few days - thanks to all, very, very useful information, and I personally appreciate y'all "telling it like it is" as far as your opinions and what seems right & what does not. It's all good to know, and it's all helpful.

Bob, I've got some good Giants; a bit of Golda in them, though not much. Bob Vaughn has VERY nice stock. My line is probably 30-40% Vaughn. I placed Reserve Champ. American under Gary Overton last fall with a 7 month old black pullet. She'll be the cornerstone of my breedings for 2013. A man named Calhoun in Ohio (I forget his first name) had a VERY VERY nice cockerel that was BB at the OH national show. We're out there, but not in huge numbers. I think many folks are unwilling to work with a breed that takes so long to mature. Just my own personal opinion. I love a big bird, and have no plans of stopping with them. I worked my butt off finding really good stock for several years - love what I see in my breed pens now!

Here is the pullet I mentioned above - this was at 17 weeks:


Here is a young blue male, at 18 weeks:



I had a ton of pictures of adult stock, but my memory card in my camera suddenly began not working, so I lost them all. Will get more pics for this year, though.

 

[call ducks]

Just got done weighting one of the late augest hatch sussex. 2 1/4 Kg. not bad. Not where i want it to be for this age. Would like to see 2.5kg.

 

[buffalogal]

There was a recent discussion here about the book "The Encyclopedia of Historic and Endangered Livestock and poultry Breeds" by Janet Vorwald Dohner and how crazy expensive it is now that it's out of print. Just a heads up for anyone looking for one, I ran across this copy on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/230891703734?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1431.l2649

 

[Fred's Hens]

There is a sense in which Heritage takes on a double meaning, for me. Maybe it is my age, I don't know. For me, there is the heritage of the bird, but also my own heritage. As a great-grandson of immigrants who came to this country to farm in the 1860-1870 decade, chicken keeping, on a somewhat larger scale, at least compared to small backyard coop, has always been in my family. I learned most of what I know, as a little boy, following my grand mother around her chicken coop and yard. She was born in 1896. She was a great chicken woman who learned from her mother. She kept Rocks, Reds and Leghorns.

Many of the breeds, just in my heart, have as much to do with my own heritage as that of the birds. They are inseparable really.

 

[mschlumb]

Bob,

Do you have a list of priority fowl you'd like to see preserved?

ALBC has their list, but I find it somewhat confusing. For instance, they have Buckeyes in "Threatened" and Hamburgs in "Watch" according to this: http://www.albc-usa.org/cpl/wtchlist.html#chickens But when I wanted to get started in breeding chickens I had no problem finding Buckeye breeders. The hard part was figuring out which ones I wanted to buy from. When it came to Large Fowl Silver Spangled Hamburgs, I've only managed to find one breeder, Paul Hardy. It would seem to me, ignorant boob that I am, that Buckeyes are more plentiful than Hamburgs. So why does the list appear to have them exactly backward of expectations? Maybe the ALBC breed list has a priority formula that isn't based on "ease of availablility" or total numbers.In any event, I'm not sure what the criteria are for getting on each of the lists (despite reading their descriptions) and would like a "second opinion" on breeds that should be a priority.

Clearly, it isn't just rarity of the breed, If that were the case then Greenfire Farm would be the ones setting priorities with all their rare imports for high-dollar prices.

So what do you think would be good for folks to work on?

rick

I can relate, finding hamburgs is a pain!!! Seems like everybody and their dog has Buckeyes now!

 

[mschlumb]

There was a recent discussion here about the book "The Encyclopedia of Historic and Endangered Livestock and poultry Breeds" by Janet Vorwald Dohner and how crazy expensive it is now that it's out of print. Just a heads up for anyone looking for one, I ran across this copy on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/230891703734?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1431.l2649

I bought that book off of amazon a while back. Very interesting to read. maybe not the most technical information in it on poultry but still very interesting.

 

[FOGELLY]

There is a sense in which Heritage takes on a double meaning, for me.  Maybe it is my age, I don't know.  For me, there is the heritage of the bird, but also my own heritage.  As a great-grandson of immigrants who came to this country to farm in the 1860-1870 decade, chicken keeping, on a somewhat larger scale, at least compared to small backyard coop, has always been in my family.  I learned most of what I know, as a little boy, following my grand mother around her chicken coop and yard.  She was born in 1896.  She was a great chicken woman who learned from her mother.  She kept Rocks, Reds and Leghorns.

Many of the breeds, just in my heart, have as much to do with my own heritage as that of the birds.  They are inseparable really.  

Fred this post really hits home with me.
I had the great fortune to have spent time with the three generations of my family before me. Great grand parents up. My last great grand parent passed away in 1973 when I was ten. She was 91 and had chickens her entire life. So chickens with us is just part of our Heritage. We just always had them.
Moving back to non hatchery "Heritage" breeds a few years ago is because of the time I spent with them. I just could not find the RIR, BR Rocks like they had been raising for years. They also had Leghorns that they hatched under the Rocks.
I kick myself for not taking up my grandpa's birds when he got to elderly to care for them, but back then I had other things on my mind.

I am sure that their birds were not SQ, but in my minds eye they were. I know they sure looked better than the hatchery birds of today.

Ron

 

[Marengoite]

I agree with capavalleychick. Thank goodness when the ALBC was recovering the Buckeye, they did not take short cuts and cross breed to increase the size of the breed. Instead, they did it the old fashioned way: HATCH A LOT OF BUCKEYE CHICKS, CULL AND SELECT. In three years, they increased the average weight of the Buckeye a pound and a half. IMHO, yes, one could recreate a composite breed, of course, like the Buckeye. It would look like a Buckeye. Would it be the original? No. The strains of Barred Rock and Buff Cochin and the Black Breasted Game (that Metcalf later said, "I know now that they had been crossed with Cornish blood and there is where I got my pea comb and Game shape.")- those strains and lines of those breeds, even if they could be discerned- could not be obtained to TRULY remake the breed-. Sure, you'd have something that fit the SOP, but there are other characteristics that go to make a breed other than its appearance alone.

OK, now I am really confused.

Your argument is that even if we duplicated the crosses that constructed the breed, we still would not have "TRULY" remade the breed, even if it fit the SOP because there is more to the breed than its appearance. If I understand what you have said, it is that we can have a bird that in all points conforms to the SOP, but is not "truly" that breed of bird because it lacks something that is not listed in the SOP.

If conformity to the SOP does not define a breed, then what does? We don't keep pedigrees on these birds like registered Holstein cows or Berkshire hogs. We don't have a Stud book like dog and horse breeders. If it isn't the SOP, then what is it that defines the breed? The breed club?

And what is the indefinable something that is necessary to make it "truly" the breed? Now you have me at a loss because I thought I understood this and apparently I don't.

rick

 

[Fred's Hens]

Fred this post really hits home with me.
I had the great fortune to have spent time with the three generations of my family before me. Great grand parents up. My last great grand parent passed away in 1973 when I was ten. She was 91 and had chickens her entire life. So chickens with us is just part of our Heritage. We just always had them.
Moving back to non hatchery "Heritage" breeds a few years ago is because of the time I spent with them. I just could not find the RIR, BR Rocks like they had been raising for years. They also had Leghorns that they hatched under the Rocks.
I kick myself for not taking up my grandpa's birds when he got to elderly to care for them, but back then I had other things on my mind.
I am sure that their birds were not SQ, but in my minds eye they are. I know they sure looked better than the hatchery birds of today.
Ron

Thanks Ron, it means a lot to me. I spend most of my time now educating young folks on agriculture, gardening and poultry from a sustainable point of view. I love it when my own grandkids come up and the chickens are hugely popular with them. They're all city kids now, but who knows? Life takes different swings. Meanwhile, the young folks I work with are a real joy as they embrace different aspects of a rural life that someone has to share with them, 'else it be lost.

I grew up caring for 250 chickens from age 7 or 8 onward. I was their sole caretaker. Farm family delegate jobs, you know. I've got the GS Bared Rocks and sure hope to improve the sad line of RIR I have now. I love them, but they needs lots and lots of work. The last and final piece for me will be the White Rocks. It will be at that point, that'll let all the production birds die out here. We'll scale down the wife's egg biz to match whatever we get from the heritage birds. And be content.