Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[thedragonlady]

That is why if you started weighing birds at shows A LOT of people would be very upset!!! Some whites would get DQ'd, a lot of the colored ones would probably be OK if not under
And unfortunatley a judge can't DQ unless he is positive of a precise weight. And to be fair every other bird in the show would have to be weighed

So, you tell me who is responsible for the huge winning birds? Guys simply love a BIG bird, and the breeders have accomodated them. The winners are much larger than when I started showing 40+ years ago. Walt, of course, will deny that he is older than I am by a long way, but he knows it's true too.Too much testosterone in the show building. I'll show my girls, and charm the guys !

 

[imtrying]

Frankly, I don't give a fig what others think, regarding my recreation of the Delaware breed. It does so happen that I used Barred Rocks from the oldest flock know. Their history can be traced to before 1900. The New Hampshires I used are also from old stock. They are the German strain. How and when did they get to Germany? They were part of the reconstruction effort after the war with Germany. The Germans are known to love this breed, and they continue to thrive there.

Will my Delawares be considered, "heritage?" I don't know and I don't care. In my opinion, if it looks like a Delawares, acts like a Delawares, shows like a Delaware, and breeds true..... it's a Delaware.

I don't get too hung up on terms like "heritage." It seems to me it is often used to romanticize the old breeds. Also, the APA has yet to determine their official standing on the word.

1) hatcheries can, and do, make this same argument. game over. the end.

2) you're posting on the "heritage large fowl thread".

i'm not concerned with what you care about, or don't care about. just pointing out the irony of this thread the last week, or so, is over the top.

is this thread a victim of its own hype? has it jumped the shark?

in my opinion, it's more amusing, than education/inspirational as of late.

 

[Marengoite]

I completely agree! Since when do we use do we use the term "heritage" to describe what was previously known as "exhibition" or "standard-bred"? The way I understand it the word "heritage" is literally a label indicating that a person is selling meat or eggs from a non-commercial bird. It doesn't describe the bird itself. The word "heritage" relates to consumers better than "standard-bred", and often evokes some emotional response used to get consumers to buy these products. We have seen on this thread how emotional the term is and what it means to people. There is nothing wrong with that, I just think it gets overused when reffered to the birds themselves.

I wish it were so, Mr. Schlumb. I wish it were so.

But our good friends at the ALBC have "defined" what Heritage fowl are for us. See: http://www.albc-usa.org/heritagechicken/definition.html which says:

Definition:

Heritage Chicken must adhere to all the following:​

1. APA Standard Breed. Heritage Chicken must be from parent and grandparent stock of breeds recognized by the American Poultry Association (APA) prior to the mid-20th century; whose genetic line can be traced back multiple generations; and with traits that meet the APA Standard of Perfection guidelines for the breed. Heritage Chicken must be produced and sired by an APA Standard breed. Heritage eggs must be laid by an APA Standard breed.
2. Naturally mating. Heritage Chicken must be reproduced and genetically maintained through natural mating. Chickens marketed as Heritage must be the result of naturally mating pairs of both grandparent and parent stock.
3. Long, productive outdoor lifespan. Heritage Chicken must have the genetic ability to live a long, vigorous life and thrive in the rigors of pasture-based, outdoor production systems. Breeding hens should be productive for 5-7 years and roosters for 3-5 years.
4. Slow growth rate. Heritage Chicken must have a moderate to slow rate of growth, reaching appropriate market weight for the breed in no less than 16 weeks. This gives the chicken time to develop strong skeletal structure and healthy organs prior to building muscle mass.​

Chickens marketed as Heritage must include the variety and breed name on the label.

Terms like “heirloom,” “antique,” “old-fashioned,” and “old timey” imply Heritage and are understood to be synonymous with the definition provided here.​

Abbreviated Definition: A Heritage Egg can only be produced by an American Poultry Association Standard breed. A Heritage Chicken is hatched from a heritage egg sired by an American Poultry Association Standard breed established prior to the mid-20th century, is slow growing, naturally mated with a long productive outdoor life.​

The American Livestock Breeds Conservancy has over 30 years of experience, knowledge, and understanding of endangered breeds, genetic conservation, and breeder networks.​

Endorsed by the following individuals:
Frank Reese, Reese Turkeys, Good Shepherd Turkey Ranch, Standard Bred Poultry Institute, and American Poultry Association;
Marjorie Bender, Research & Technical Program Director, American Livestock Breeds Conservancy
D. Phillip Sponenberg, DVM, PhD., Technical Advisor, American Livestock Breeds Conservancy, and Professor, Veterinary Pathology and Genetics, Virginia Tech;
Don Bixby, DVM. Independent Consultant, former Executive Director for the American Livestock Breeds Conservancy;
R. Scott Beyer, PhD, Associate Professor, Poultry Nutrition Management, Kansas State University,
Danny Williamson, Windmill Farm, Good Shepherd Turkey Ranch, and American Poultry Association;
Anne Fanatico, PhD, Research Associate, Center for Excellence for Poultry Science, University of Arkansas;
Kenneth E. Anderson, Professor, Poultry Extension Specialist, North Carolina State University​

​

 

[BarnGoddess01]

I don't even have any "heritage" breeds and I LOVE this thread. I learn SO much from you guys and I'm a 'genetics' gal at heart. What can I say? You've sold me on the value of line breeding. (But I still love the genetics ... )

Bob, I LOVE those silkied Seramas. I have a friend with a bunch of those in her coop!!

Ok ... back to your regularly scheduled programming ...

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

1) hatcheries can, and do, make this same argument. game over. the end.

2) you're posting on the "heritage large fowl thread".

i'm not concerned with what you care about, or don't care about. just pointing out the irony of this thread the last week, or so, is over the top.

is this thread a victim of its own hype? has it jumped the shark?

in my opinion, it's more amusing, than education/inspirational as of late.

....and your point, other than to 'argue' is what exactly??

Heritage, not unlike "organic" is a marketing term, PERIOD. Beyond that it has NO meaning. Kathy is an excellent breeder and her point is well made.

The ideal/principle of this thread is to discuss how to breed "old" breeds to the standard as established in the SOP, nothing more, nothing less.

I think nothing less than a little respect is expected on this thread

 

[mschlumb]

So, you tell me who is responsible for the huge winning birds? Guys simply love a BIG bird, and the breeders have accomodated them. The winners are much larger than when I started showing 40+ years ago. Walt, of course, will deny that he is older than I am by a long way, but he knows it's true too.Too much testosterone in the show building. I'll show my girls, and charm the guys !

Hey, I am not trying to blame anybody or be antagonistic, I'm just saying you not be well recieved if you walked into a show hall with a set of scales, it's unfortunate but that's just the way it is.... As breeders we just need to make a choice..breed a big bird to win, or breed one more in line with the standard. I hope majority of us stick with standard guidelines.

 

[Marengoite]

And to be fair every other bird in the show would have to be weighed

Really? I would think an experienced judge would be able to guess weight within 4 oz. It would only need to be weighed if it's close or the judge is unsure. I would say any bird that was DQ'd would need exact weight documented just to keep the griping down. But that raises the question of what if some birds are not DQ'd but are borderline and not weighed? Is there a procedure to contest a bird that is not DQ'd that should be?

Just wondering. I've only visited shows and never shown anything other than market turkeys at the county fair.

 

[imtrying]

i agree about respect.

my point was clear.

thanks for your input on the conversation.

 

[mschlumb]

....and your point, other than to 'argue' is what exactly??

Heritage, not unlike "organic" is a marketing term, PERIOD. Beyond that it has NO meaning. Kathy is an excellent breeder and her point is well made.

The ideal/principle of this thread is to discuss how to breed "old" breeds to the standard as established in the SOP, nothing more, nothing less.

I think nothing less than a little respect is expected on this thread

Thank You!!!

 

[NYREDS]

Quote:
Who told you that? I have disqualified birds for weight w/o actually weighing them when they were obviously way over or under weight. [usually under]

Here's what the Standard says: "When size & weight cannot be determined by comparison, it is advisable to require the weighing of the specimens."