Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[bnjrob]

Around here I eat anything big enough to dress out, usually starting with the boys at about 3=4 months. Some of the bigger breeds like my Black Copper Marans and Buff Orpingtons will dress out around 2-2 1/2 pounds at that age, some a little bigger some a little smaller. The easter eggers and Welsummers are a little smaller and take a little longer to get the same size. Also they seem to grow more slowly, but both are more egg layers than meaties. Older birds make fine soup and stock.

None of mine grow out with the huge breasts you see on commercial meat chickens and if that is what you are after, you probably should raise the Cornish X. But my guys give me plenty of meat, especially on the legs and back that you won't see on that grocery store chicken.

That's about like ours with the breasts. I do think that our males could have a little improvement in the breast area even though they are "dual purpose" birds. We've had some of our 4 month olds dress out at 3.5 lb. Older ones have dressed out around 5 lb. And we didn't do any fattening up, putting in a smaller pen for a while before we butchered. Might have been able to get them a little heavier if we had done that but the decision to butcher them came pretty suddenly and we just wanted it done.

 

[Robert Blosl]

Dear Mr. Blosl

I'm sorry to hear that you are having problems with your blood pressure. Please follow your doctor's recommendations and take care of yourself. It must have been difficult to downsize your flocks. I empathize with you, and am happy that you found places for your birds where they will be so well taken care of.

I want to thank you for the glowing comments that you made about pictures of my spprs last winter. Your compliments made my day, my week, my month, perhaps even my year!

Your comments were so encouraging that I am spending much more time and effort on trying to improve my small flock of silver pencilled plymouth rocks. I have noticed from following this website that you have made generous contributions of your time and knowledge to help others. I want you to know that it is much appreciated!

even from far away on Prince Edward Island, Canada . . . Get well soon, I pray.

Thank you for all your kind thoughts and comments. My blood pressure was 126/92 last night and if I can just get the diastolic numbers down I may be better. It has not been fun with my vision.

I remember you Rocks you had up in Canada kind of a surprise find but they looked so good to me. More folks need to have your bird in the future so keep plowing away and learn about them

There was a good picture of Silver Penciled Rocks and articles in the resent Plymouth Rock Monthly about them. If you send me a personnel message with your email address I will forward you the copies I got by email.

In regards to finger placement in the pelvic bones I was taught as a four H Judging team member the ideal fingers in the pelvic bones on a white leghorn was three finger widths. For capacity I would look for four fingers below the pelvic bones for capacity.

In regards to type in dual purpose large fowl you got to look at the possibility of the old Cochin large fowl genes coming into your strap as they where used over a 100 years ago in the make up of many breeds of large fowl like rocks and reds. If you get carried away with nice wide feathers, short body lengths cushions will show up, stubs and loss of egg production. The Cochin genes mess up more people every ten years than you can shake a stick at. It has encroached today into our Rhode Island Red Bantams. They have lost their brick shape, they have elevated top lines like a Rock Bantam and they are just not R I Reds anymore. Yet you see them all the time in the Poultry Press pictures of winners.

I would love to know how many Buff Rock chicks you hatch out their in Arizona. That was a great example of shipping hatching eggs if I ever saw it. I was talking to Ken in Tenn the other day on the phone and he said I wrote something on this years ago or posted pictures on my picture trail page.

Again thanks for your thoughts. What kind of herbs can I take to help me with my blood pressure problems. bob

 

[maryhysong]

Again thanks for your thoughts. What kind of herbs can I take to help me with my blood pressure problems. bob

A lot of people swear by fresh garlic to keep their blood pressure down. Might also try to figure out what you are doing/eating/drinking that is making it go up so high.

 

[bnjrob]

What kind of herbs can I take to help me with my blood pressure problems. bob

Hibiscus tea, hawthorne capsules.

Have a friend who's doctor suggested the hawthorne to them and it did so well they stopped prescribing "regular" bp meds for her and her husband.

Doesn't always work for everyone, but you never know what might work.

 

[colburg]

RE: Call of the Hen

I was trying to look up pictures and more info of what Hogan calls prepotency and came across a site that says that the theory of phrenology (upon which his work was based) has since been debunked, but doesn't say that the prepotency theory was debunked as well. Does anyone know of any other research or have experience with this?

http://scratchcradle.wordpress.com/2012/12/09/gms-supplement-3-selecting-for-head-shape/

Hogan proposed that if the brain was large, the nervous system was healthy and the chicken’s traits would be more apparent in its offspring than a chicken with a poorer nervous system. Borrowing heavily from the now mostly debunked theory of phrenology which was practiced on humans in the early 1900s, Hogan said that the development of the brain and nervous system that was the root of prepotency could be ascertained by looking at the size and shape of the skull. He placed one thumb at the back of the skull and his other thumb at the base of the ear: If the first thumb was to the rear of the second, the chicken was higher in prepotency. If his second thumb was equal to or behind the first, the chicken was lower in prepotency.

The only other info I find on prepotency is http://www.ksre.ksu.edu/historicpublications/pubs/SC168.pdf But they only use egg laying capabilities of the dam to choose cocks to use for breeding. This isn't what Hogan was doing.

Thanks,

 

[galanie]

RE: Call of the Hen

I was trying to look up pictures and more info of what Hogan calls prepotency and came across a site that says that the theory of phrenology (upon which his work was based) has since been debunked, but doesn't say that the prepotency theory was debunked as well. Does anyone know of any other research or have experience with this?

http://scratchcradle.wordpress.com/2012/12/09/gms-supplement-3-selecting-for-head-shape/

Hogan proposed that if the brain was large, the nervous system was healthy and the chicken’s traits would be more apparent in its offspring than a chicken with a poorer nervous system. Borrowing heavily from the now mostly debunked theory of phrenology which was practiced on humans in the early 1900s, Hogan said that the development of the brain and nervous system that was the root of prepotency could be ascertained by looking at the size and shape of the skull. He placed one thumb at the back of the skull and his other thumb at the base of the ear: If the first thumb was to the rear of the second, the chicken was higher in prepotency. If his second thumb was equal to or behind the first, the chicken was lower in prepotency.

The only other info I find on prepotency is http://www.ksre.ksu.edu/historicpublications/pubs/SC168.pdf But they only use egg laying capabilities of the dam to choose cocks to use for breeding. This isn't what Hogan was doing.

Thanks,

Either I misread Hogan's book or they missed the boat. It is my understanding from reading The Call of the Hen that it is not the shape of the entire skull he draws attention to, but rather the nodule on the back of the skull. And that is what he is measuring with his method of putting a thumbnail at the back of the skull and another at the base of the skull. He claims that skull shapes in regards to the knot at the back of the head only need to be similar in the sire and the dam and that those with a larger "knot" back there are prepotent.

He says that the "organ of amativeness" is located where that rear protuberance shows up, therefore those birds more readily pass their traits on to their offspring.

The web page you read seems to be comparing apples to oranges. Mr. Hogan was only looking at the rear of the skull, not the whole skull as I read it on pages 68-69 of that book. Later he gets to that, true, but for the reasons of prepotency alone, it's only the shape of the back of the skull, not the entire skull.

 

[fowlman01]

RE: Call of the Hen

I was trying to look up pictures and more info of what Hogan calls prepotency and came across a site that says that the theory of phrenology (upon which his work was based) has since been debunked, but doesn't say that the prepotency theory was debunked as well. Does anyone know of any other research or have experience with this?

http://scratchcradle.wordpress.com/2012/12/09/gms-supplement-3-selecting-for-head-shape/

Hogan proposed that if the brain was large, the nervous system was healthy and the chicken’s traits would be more apparent in its offspring than a chicken with a poorer nervous system. Borrowing heavily from the now mostly debunked theory of phrenology which was practiced on humans in the early 1900s, Hogan said that the development of the brain and nervous system that was the root of prepotency could be ascertained by looking at the size and shape of the skull. He placed one thumb at the back of the skull and his other thumb at the base of the ear: If the first thumb was to the rear of the second, the chicken was higher in prepotency. If his second thumb was equal to or behind the first, the chicken was lower in prepotency.

The only other info I find on prepotency is http://www.ksre.ksu.edu/historicpublications/pubs/SC168.pdf But they only use egg laying capabilities of the dam to choose cocks to use for breeding. This isn't what Hogan was doing.

Thanks,

I have had male birds that would sire better than average offspring no matter what female I put them on. IMO that is "prepotency". It is the male and when put on the right females they sired champions ....one after another. Every bird from these males was better than average and it didn't seem to matter how the female looked. I haven't seen a lot of these males in my career, but the one's I have had were amazing.

Walt

 

[thedragonlady]

I have had male birds that would sire better than average offspring no matter what female I put them on. IMO that is "prepotency". It is the male and when put on the right females they sired champions ....one after another. Every bird from these males was better than average and it didn't seem to matter how the female looked. I haven't seen a lot of these males in my career, but the one's I have had were amazing.

Walt

Right on Walt. I have been very lucky to have had a prepotent Suffolk ram, a Nubian buck, a Mastiff stud dog, a male Butterfly Koi ,a White Silkie cock, and now a Buff Orp, who throw as good, or better than they are, no matter what they are bred to.This is after 60 years of breeding critters.
All of the above were very closely bred, but not inbred.Their off spring were/ are unmistakable.

 

[Outlier]

RE: Call of the Hen

I was trying to look up pictures and more info of what Hogan calls prepotency and came across a site that says that the theory of phrenology (upon which his work was based) has since been debunked, but doesn't say that the prepotency theory was debunked as well. Does anyone know of any other research or have experience with this?

http://scratchcradle.wordpress.com/2012/12/09/gms-supplement-3-selecting-for-head-shape/

Hogan proposed that if the brain was large, the nervous system was healthy and the chicken’s traits would be more apparent in its offspring than a chicken with a poorer nervous system. Borrowing heavily from the now mostly debunked theory of phrenology which was practiced on humans in the early 1900s, Hogan said that the development of the brain and nervous system that was the root of prepotency could be ascertained by looking at the size and shape of the skull. He placed one thumb at the back of the skull and his other thumb at the base of the ear: If the first thumb was to the rear of the second, the chicken was higher in prepotency. If his second thumb was equal to or behind the first, the chicken was lower in prepotency.

The only other info I find on prepotency is http://www.ksre.ksu.edu/historicpublications/pubs/SC168.pdf But they only use egg laying capabilities of the dam to choose cocks to use for breeding. This isn't what Hogan was doing.

Thanks,

I have heard prepotency discussed from time to time in cattle breeding. It refers to the ability of one parent to influence the physical traits of the offspring more than the other. A prepotent sire will produce very similar offspring from different dams. It's also referred to the ability to transmit. Some great sires and dams that score very well will simply not have superior offspring no matter what you breed them to. But I've never seen any evidence of being able to predict the level of prepotency through a physical trait. Then again, my experience has been with cattle.

 

[thedragonlady]

I have heard prepotency discussed from time to time in cattle breeding. It refers to the ability of one parent to influence the physical traits of the offspring more than the other. A prepotent sire will produce very similar offspring from different dams. It's also referred to the ability to transmit. Some great sires and dams that score very well will simply not have superior offspring no matter what you breed them to. But I've never seen any evidence of being able to predict the level of prepotency through a physical trait. Then again, my experience has been with cattle.

I was a DHIR tester for years. There were a few dairy bulls who were dominant for milk production, as there were Dairy Goat bucks.The offspring all had similar good characteristics as the sire in conformation.

I bought 3 Nubian does, from 3 different states, when I got started. All were ADGA registered. It was not until the following fall when I started to think about breeding them, that I realized I had bought 3 does sired by the same buck.I never looked at the pedigrees before as they are useless unless you can visualize the animals on them. Happy coincidence...I ended up with the top show/ producing herd in the SE.