I take the SOP as "form to function" In horses they have performance horses and halter horses in the "70's halter began it's journey to looks not function now we have performance halter where a horse must perform first to show in that class those horses are to me what we're looking for with the SOP. Sure there are chickens bred just for producing eggs and chickens bred just for meat they are not in the SOP. I want beautiful chickens that have an excellent rate of lay and the excess birds have enough flesh to butcher..that's why I picked the Delawares and the Rocks and so far I'm happy with my eggs and meat it's the breeding of them that I'm trying to learn. I'm learning more everyday thanks to the people on here who are willing to help show us. Thank you all very much for the help I've gotten so far I'm a sponge....
Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread
- Thread starter Robert Blosl
- Start date
- Status
Quote:
Where do you draw the line? If this is the only measuring stick that the Heritage folks can use is the APA standard can use or choose to use, then you have to use it and if you don't meet the criteria then sorry but the breed isn't considered heritage. At some point the line has to be drawn and who's in is in. Not everybody can be heritage or its a useless title. Or (which is what Id like to see done) base it off when the breed was first appeared versus when it was accepted as standard. A lot of breeds can say when they first appeared at show, I've even read when first colors appeared in the breed on some breed info/history sites. I think that's a more accurate measure of a breed being heritage then when they were accepted especially if there is those kinds of gaps in the standard being updated.
As far what Bob posted
If its an example of what the breed used to be I think more people would be on board with keeping some of the rare or heritage breeds. Thats the biggest frustration I and others had when looking at breeds. Its so tough to find a bird today that exhibits all the traits that the breed is known for. I'm not talking show quality I'm talking about why people kept them. For example lets take the Barred Rock. It was the most popular chicken in the US up until World War II right? It was so popular because it was such as an outstanding farm chicken. It was hardy, docile, and excellent production of both meat and eggs. A great all purpose bird. Now look at todays Barred Rock. Sure the egg production is sound heck it might even exceed Grandpa's old flock, but go process some today and you'd better prepare some extra side dishes if your serving that bird for dinner. Yes part of its diet, but if the breeding isn't there for it to carry a lot of flesh diet can't compensate for all of that25.
On the meat forum its asked all the time about what breed should I get to have a sustainable flock of meat birds. People want to eat better for you chicken. More and more people are looking at raising their own birds to avoid the hormones, the medications, and who knows what else goes into the production meat bird that is sold in stores. I'm part of those folks too, that's what got me looking at chickens in the first place. I said this on the Delaware thread and I'm sure I offended some folks there with it but it bears repeating. And to the Delaware folks I meant no harm. People are not breeding birds to the idea (not the ideal) but the concept that the breed was created for. The Delaware was the broiler till the CX came along. The Barred Rock was the ideal farm chicken. Same with the Wyandotte another great farm chicken. The RIR is an egg laying machine. Where have those birds gone? Why have we gotten so far away from those standards and expecations with regards to what we keep when we talk about a majority of these breeds? My father came with my family to the county fair and we went into the poultry barn. He saw a few barred rocks and looked at me and said "Now theres a chicken!" He told me about how they'd go to his Uncle's (my great uncle) farm and those were the birds he and everybody around him kept because "they gave you breakfast and dinner" as folks were fond of saying. Id kill to have some of those old style Barred Rocks that he remembers from when he was a kid.
Bring back those kinds of birds, a Delaware, a Rock, a Wyandotte, a New Hampshire to name a few that is built like a meat bird with good fleshy thighs and a presentable breast. Breeds with a high fertility rate, is a respectable layer to replenish the number of chicks needed to process out in the fall and people would be on board wanting those breeds. Look at how popular the Freedom Ranger is and its a ho-hum French hybrid hybrid that won't breed true. There are a number of folks keeping some of those birds back to try to reproduce the Freedom Ranger. There will always be the folks who keep CX but there are plenty of folks that would be willing to keep a bird past 16 weeks to process if it could be kept in a flock to be sustainable and rendered a 6lbs carcass when dressed out. That's why the Buckeye has gained in popularity. Its hearty, carries a lot of flesh, forages well, respectable layer, low maintance, and breeds easily. Its what most small flock owners would if they kept only 1 breed. Sounds a lot like the breed descriptons I mentioned above doesn't it?
I hope I don't sound like I'm being too harsh but its been a very frustrating search for the breed I want and then finding the birds I want within that breed to make it worthwhile to keep them. Its very disheartening when I'm told its just easier to keep a layer flock and a tractor full of CX for the freezer. I'm more than willing to give a bit on the size of the carcass or egg production because those are factors I know I can improve on. The hardest part for me is finding a solid starting point with respectable stock to breed up from.
Jared...I think you came to the right place. The "typical chicken" of today is from hatchery stock, maybe a few generations removed at best and for that your comments are DEAD ON. BUT, let Walt, Bob, Chris, Jamie (if I'm overlooking someone else I am sorry) show you where to find the "old fashioned" chicken you are looking for. I joined the Plymouth Rock Fanciers Club and with Bob and Jamies help, I now have a NICE flock of barred rocks and I am learning WHAT to do with them. I have also obtained Columbian Rocks in large fowl. The "old fashioned" birds are out there (title them Heritage or not) but you need to find a good mentor or two to help you get started. I can attest to the fact that the BRs I have now look NOTHING like anything I have seen or owned prior.
Give it a shot.....pick something you are interested in and let's see if these true poultrymen (and women) can't help you.
Best of luck!!!
Scott
Where do you draw the line? If this is the only measuring stick that the Heritage folks can use is the APA standard can use or choose to use, then you have to use it and if you don't meet the criteria then sorry but the breed isn't considered heritage. At some point the line has to be drawn and who's in is in. Not everybody can be heritage or its a useless title. Or (which is what Id like to see done) base it off when the breed was first appeared versus when it was accepted as standard. A lot of breeds can say when they first appeared at show, I've even read when first colors appeared in the breed on some breed info/history sites. I think that's a more accurate measure of a breed being heritage then when they were accepted especially if there is those kinds of gaps in the standard being updated.
As far what Bob posted
If its an example of what the breed used to be I think more people would be on board with keeping some of the rare or heritage breeds. Thats the biggest frustration I and others had when looking at breeds. Its so tough to find a bird today that exhibits all the traits that the breed is known for. I'm not talking show quality I'm talking about why people kept them. For example lets take the Barred Rock. It was the most popular chicken in the US up until World War II right? It was so popular because it was such as an outstanding farm chicken. It was hardy, docile, and excellent production of both meat and eggs. A great all purpose bird. Now look at todays Barred Rock. Sure the egg production is sound heck it might even exceed Grandpa's old flock, but go process some today and you'd better prepare some extra side dishes if your serving that bird for dinner. Yes part of its diet, but if the breeding isn't there for it to carry a lot of flesh diet can't compensate for all of that25.
On the meat forum its asked all the time about what breed should I get to have a sustainable flock of meat birds. People want to eat better for you chicken. More and more people are looking at raising their own birds to avoid the hormones, the medications, and who knows what else goes into the production meat bird that is sold in stores. I'm part of those folks too, that's what got me looking at chickens in the first place. I said this on the Delaware thread and I'm sure I offended some folks there with it but it bears repeating. And to the Delaware folks I meant no harm. People are not breeding birds to the idea (not the ideal) but the concept that the breed was created for. The Delaware was the broiler till the CX came along. The Barred Rock was the ideal farm chicken. Same with the Wyandotte another great farm chicken. The RIR is an egg laying machine. Where have those birds gone? Why have we gotten so far away from those standards and expecations with regards to what we keep when we talk about a majority of these breeds? My father came with my family to the county fair and we went into the poultry barn. He saw a few barred rocks and looked at me and said "Now theres a chicken!" He told me about how they'd go to his Uncle's (my great uncle) farm and those were the birds he and everybody around him kept because "they gave you breakfast and dinner" as folks were fond of saying. Id kill to have some of those old style Barred Rocks that he remembers from when he was a kid.
Bring back those kinds of birds, a Delaware, a Rock, a Wyandotte, a New Hampshire to name a few that is built like a meat bird with good fleshy thighs and a presentable breast. Breeds with a high fertility rate, is a respectable layer to replenish the number of chicks needed to process out in the fall and people would be on board wanting those breeds. Look at how popular the Freedom Ranger is and its a ho-hum French hybrid hybrid that won't breed true. There are a number of folks keeping some of those birds back to try to reproduce the Freedom Ranger. There will always be the folks who keep CX but there are plenty of folks that would be willing to keep a bird past 16 weeks to process if it could be kept in a flock to be sustainable and rendered a 6lbs carcass when dressed out. That's why the Buckeye has gained in popularity. Its hearty, carries a lot of flesh, forages well, respectable layer, low maintance, and breeds easily. Its what most small flock owners would if they kept only 1 breed. Sounds a lot like the breed descriptons I mentioned above doesn't it?
I hope I don't sound like I'm being too harsh but its been a very frustrating search for the breed I want and then finding the birds I want within that breed to make it worthwhile to keep them. Its very disheartening when I'm told its just easier to keep a layer flock and a tractor full of CX for the freezer. I'm more than willing to give a bit on the size of the carcass or egg production because those are factors I know I can improve on. The hardest part for me is finding a solid starting point with respectable stock to breed up from.
Jared...I think you came to the right place. The "typical chicken" of today is from hatchery stock, maybe a few generations removed at best and for that your comments are DEAD ON. BUT, let Walt, Bob, Chris, Jamie (if I'm overlooking someone else I am sorry) show you where to find the "old fashioned" chicken you are looking for. I joined the Plymouth Rock Fanciers Club and with Bob and Jamies help, I now have a NICE flock of barred rocks and I am learning WHAT to do with them. I have also obtained Columbian Rocks in large fowl. The "old fashioned" birds are out there (title them Heritage or not) but you need to find a good mentor or two to help you get started. I can attest to the fact that the BRs I have now look NOTHING like anything I have seen or owned prior.
Give it a shot.....pick something you are interested in and let's see if these true poultrymen (and women) can't help you.
Best of luck!!!
Scott
Last edited:
Quote:
Thanks! The rose comb Nankin bantams are very nice. The other chickens are too, but that male Nankin is a beauty.
Walt
Thanks! The rose comb Nankin bantams are very nice. The other chickens are too, but that male Nankin is a beauty.
Walt
http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk296/fowlman01/Misc%20bird/?action=view¤t=24barredrock.jpg
I don't know how to have the image show up in the body here so I am putting this link.
This is a bird I received from Ralph Sturgeon in 1974. He is leaning forward so he looks shallow. He wasn't shallow at all. The comb is frostbitten and that is why that looks bad.
I am posting it because it has a great tail. It is sometimes difficult to get the correct tail in BR LF and particularly in bantam BR males. I wish the picture was better, but this was an outstanding bird.
Here is an old rare breed that I am currently raising. Not Heritage, but old and interesting. It is a Shamo.
http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk296/fowlman01/Misc bird/?action=view¤t=darkshamo.jpg
I don't know how to have the image show up in the body here so I am putting this link.
This is a bird I received from Ralph Sturgeon in 1974. He is leaning forward so he looks shallow. He wasn't shallow at all. The comb is frostbitten and that is why that looks bad.
I am posting it because it has a great tail. It is sometimes difficult to get the correct tail in BR LF and particularly in bantam BR males. I wish the picture was better, but this was an outstanding bird.
Here is an old rare breed that I am currently raising. Not Heritage, but old and interesting. It is a Shamo.
http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk296/fowlman01/Misc bird/?action=view¤t=darkshamo.jpg
Walt,
That is a great body on that Rock, that is a great tail, and yes he is leaning forward, but you can tell he has great width of body and breast. I love that "U" top line. Most today have the "check mark V" shape. Hard to find them with width between the legs anymore. Sturgeon was a great breeder. Everyone should read his book/pamphlet.
That is a great body on that Rock, that is a great tail, and yes he is leaning forward, but you can tell he has great width of body and breast. I love that "U" top line. Most today have the "check mark V" shape. Hard to find them with width between the legs anymore. Sturgeon was a great breeder. Everyone should read his book/pamphlet.
Last edited:
Here is an example of a crested breed that is truly a dual purpose bird and not just ornamental. She weighed 8.5 lbs (6.5 is SOP wt) and she laid an egg a day during laying season. This bird did very well in shows, yet would have been a good eater or egg layer. Breeding to the SOP does not eliminate the usefulness of chickens unless done by someone who does not know what they are doing. I they don't know what they are doing it will show in the form of the bird.
http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk296/fowlman01/Misc bird/?action=view¤t=27houdan.jpg
Walt Leonard
http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk296/fowlman01/Misc bird/?action=view¤t=27houdan.jpg
Walt Leonard
Quote:
I posted the pic to show the tail.
My printing company printed that booklet. Do you have a copy? I have turned this place upside down looking for one. While we put his notes in order I had a lot of time to visit with Ralph. He was quite a man! He judged my Barred Rocks at an APA National out here in 79...I think it was. They had extremely wide bodies. I will have to find more pics of the barred rocks that came from that male. Oliver Bowen was used to winning with his white Rocks and these barred's started to ruin his days at shows.
About 20 years ago two Basset hounds put me out of the Barred Rock business. Someday I will have some again. I love them!
I posted the pic to show the tail.
My printing company printed that booklet. Do you have a copy? I have turned this place upside down looking for one. While we put his notes in order I had a lot of time to visit with Ralph. He was quite a man! He judged my Barred Rocks at an APA National out here in 79...I think it was. They had extremely wide bodies. I will have to find more pics of the barred rocks that came from that male. Oliver Bowen was used to winning with his white Rocks and these barred's started to ruin his days at shows.
About 20 years ago two Basset hounds put me out of the Barred Rock business. Someday I will have some again. I love them!
- Sep 21, 2010
- 34
- 1
- 24
Quote:
Thanks! The rose comb Nankin bantams are very nice. The other chickens are too, but that male Nankin is a beauty.
Walt
Great, glad you liked it. I'm a big Williamsburg fan and found their rare breeds program especially interesting.
Thanks! The rose comb Nankin bantams are very nice. The other chickens are too, but that male Nankin is a beauty.
Walt
Great, glad you liked it. I'm a big Williamsburg fan and found their rare breeds program especially interesting.
Quote:
Where do you draw the line? If this is the only measuring stick that the Heritage folks can use is the APA standard can use or choose to use, then you have to use it and if you don't meet the criteria then sorry but the breed isn't considered heritage. At some point the line has to be drawn and who's in is in. Not everybody can be heritage or its a useless title. Or (which is what Id like to see done) base it off when the breed was first appeared versus when it was accepted as standard. A lot of breeds can say when they first appeared at show, I've even read when first colors appeared in the breed on some breed info/history sites. I think that's a more accurate measure of a breed being heritage then when they were accepted especially if there is those kinds of gaps in the standard being updated.
If its an example of what the breed used to be I think more people would be on board with keeping some of the rare or heritage breeds. Thats the biggest frustration I and others had when looking at breeds. Its so tough to find a bird today that exhibits all the traits that the breed is known for. I'm not talking show quality I'm talking about why people kept them. For example lets take the Barred Rock. It was the most popular chicken in the US up until World War II right? It was so popular because it was such as an outstanding farm chicken. It was hardy, docile, and excellent production of both meat and eggs. A great all purpose bird. Now look at todays Barred Rock. Sure the egg production is sound heck it might even exceed Grandpa's old flock, but go process some today and you'd better prepare some extra side dishes if your serving that bird for dinner. Yes part of its diet, but if the breeding isn't there for it to carry a lot of flesh diet can't compensate for all of that25.
On the meat forum its asked all the time about what breed should I get to have a sustainable flock of meat birds. People want to eat better for you chicken. More and more people are looking at raising their own birds to avoid the hormones, the medications, and who knows what else goes into the production meat bird that is sold in stores. I'm part of those folks too, that's what got me looking at chickens in the first place. I said this on the Delaware thread and I'm sure I offended some folks there with it but it bears repeating. And to the Delaware folks I meant no harm. People are not breeding birds to the idea (not the ideal) but the concept that the breed was created for. The Delaware was the broiler till the CX came along. The Barred Rock was the ideal farm chicken. Same with the Wyandotte another great farm chicken. The RIR is an egg laying machine. Where have those birds gone? Why have we gotten so far away from those standards and expecations with regards to what we keep when we talk about a majority of these breeds? My father came with my family to the county fair and we went into the poultry barn. He saw a few barred rocks and looked at me and said "Now theres a chicken!" He told me about how they'd go to his Uncle's (my great uncle) farm and those were the birds he and everybody around him kept because "they gave you breakfast and dinner" as folks were fond of saying. Id kill to have some of those old style Barred Rocks that he remembers from when he was a kid.
Bring back those kinds of birds, a Delaware, a Rock, a Wyandotte, a New Hampshire to name a few that is built like a meat bird with good fleshy thighs and a presentable breast. Breeds with a high fertility rate, is a respectable layer to replenish the number of chicks needed to process out in the fall and people would be on board wanting those breeds. Look at how popular the Freedom Ranger is and its a ho-hum French hybrid hybrid that won't breed true. There are a number of folks keeping some of those birds back to try to reproduce the Freedom Ranger. There will always be the folks who keep CX but there are plenty of folks that would be willing to keep a bird past 16 weeks to process if it could be kept in a flock to be sustainable and rendered a 6lbs carcass when dressed out. That's why the Buckeye has gained in popularity. Its hearty, carries a lot of flesh, forages well, respectable layer, low maintance, and breeds easily. Its what most small flock owners would if they kept only 1 breed. Sounds a lot like the breed descriptons I mentioned above doesn't it?
I hope I don't sound like I'm being too harsh but its been a very frustrating search for the breed I want and then finding the birds I want within that breed to make it worthwhile to keep them. Its very disheartening when I'm told its just easier to keep a layer flock and a tractor full of CX for the freezer. I'm more than willing to give a bit on the size of the carcass or egg production because those are factors I know I can improve on. The hardest part for me is finding a solid starting point with respectable stock to breed up from.
We see the occasional really nice bird on here, how do we get more of those birds that are up to standard available for more folks?
edited because cat jumped on the keyboard before I could finish my thought
It was not easy for me to find good SL Wyandottes.....it took a long time before I did and was then able to finally get some hatching eggs to get my start with them. Hopefully it will get easier, not harder to find the heritage breeds but I don't know if that will happen or not. In my area for the most part a chicken is just a chicken to people. They want something that will lay them an egg a day and that's it....they don't care if it meets the standard or not. I think in some areas of the country it's easier to find good stock in that there are APA sanctioned shows that you can go to and meet different breeders. I've only got one show closer than 4 or 5 hours from me.
Where do you draw the line? If this is the only measuring stick that the Heritage folks can use is the APA standard can use or choose to use, then you have to use it and if you don't meet the criteria then sorry but the breed isn't considered heritage. At some point the line has to be drawn and who's in is in. Not everybody can be heritage or its a useless title. Or (which is what Id like to see done) base it off when the breed was first appeared versus when it was accepted as standard. A lot of breeds can say when they first appeared at show, I've even read when first colors appeared in the breed on some breed info/history sites. I think that's a more accurate measure of a breed being heritage then when they were accepted especially if there is those kinds of gaps in the standard being updated.
If its an example of what the breed used to be I think more people would be on board with keeping some of the rare or heritage breeds. Thats the biggest frustration I and others had when looking at breeds. Its so tough to find a bird today that exhibits all the traits that the breed is known for. I'm not talking show quality I'm talking about why people kept them. For example lets take the Barred Rock. It was the most popular chicken in the US up until World War II right? It was so popular because it was such as an outstanding farm chicken. It was hardy, docile, and excellent production of both meat and eggs. A great all purpose bird. Now look at todays Barred Rock. Sure the egg production is sound heck it might even exceed Grandpa's old flock, but go process some today and you'd better prepare some extra side dishes if your serving that bird for dinner. Yes part of its diet, but if the breeding isn't there for it to carry a lot of flesh diet can't compensate for all of that25.
On the meat forum its asked all the time about what breed should I get to have a sustainable flock of meat birds. People want to eat better for you chicken. More and more people are looking at raising their own birds to avoid the hormones, the medications, and who knows what else goes into the production meat bird that is sold in stores. I'm part of those folks too, that's what got me looking at chickens in the first place. I said this on the Delaware thread and I'm sure I offended some folks there with it but it bears repeating. And to the Delaware folks I meant no harm. People are not breeding birds to the idea (not the ideal) but the concept that the breed was created for. The Delaware was the broiler till the CX came along. The Barred Rock was the ideal farm chicken. Same with the Wyandotte another great farm chicken. The RIR is an egg laying machine. Where have those birds gone? Why have we gotten so far away from those standards and expecations with regards to what we keep when we talk about a majority of these breeds? My father came with my family to the county fair and we went into the poultry barn. He saw a few barred rocks and looked at me and said "Now theres a chicken!" He told me about how they'd go to his Uncle's (my great uncle) farm and those were the birds he and everybody around him kept because "they gave you breakfast and dinner" as folks were fond of saying. Id kill to have some of those old style Barred Rocks that he remembers from when he was a kid.
Bring back those kinds of birds, a Delaware, a Rock, a Wyandotte, a New Hampshire to name a few that is built like a meat bird with good fleshy thighs and a presentable breast. Breeds with a high fertility rate, is a respectable layer to replenish the number of chicks needed to process out in the fall and people would be on board wanting those breeds. Look at how popular the Freedom Ranger is and its a ho-hum French hybrid hybrid that won't breed true. There are a number of folks keeping some of those birds back to try to reproduce the Freedom Ranger. There will always be the folks who keep CX but there are plenty of folks that would be willing to keep a bird past 16 weeks to process if it could be kept in a flock to be sustainable and rendered a 6lbs carcass when dressed out. That's why the Buckeye has gained in popularity. Its hearty, carries a lot of flesh, forages well, respectable layer, low maintance, and breeds easily. Its what most small flock owners would if they kept only 1 breed. Sounds a lot like the breed descriptons I mentioned above doesn't it?
I hope I don't sound like I'm being too harsh but its been a very frustrating search for the breed I want and then finding the birds I want within that breed to make it worthwhile to keep them. Its very disheartening when I'm told its just easier to keep a layer flock and a tractor full of CX for the freezer. I'm more than willing to give a bit on the size of the carcass or egg production because those are factors I know I can improve on. The hardest part for me is finding a solid starting point with respectable stock to breed up from.
We see the occasional really nice bird on here, how do we get more of those birds that are up to standard available for more folks?
edited because cat jumped on the keyboard before I could finish my thought
It was not easy for me to find good SL Wyandottes.....it took a long time before I did and was then able to finally get some hatching eggs to get my start with them. Hopefully it will get easier, not harder to find the heritage breeds but I don't know if that will happen or not. In my area for the most part a chicken is just a chicken to people. They want something that will lay them an egg a day and that's it....they don't care if it meets the standard or not. I think in some areas of the country it's easier to find good stock in that there are APA sanctioned shows that you can go to and meet different breeders. I've only got one show closer than 4 or 5 hours from me.
I'd never have been able to keep chickens back when my basset could still see.
Quote:
I posted the pic to show the tail.
My printing company printed that booklet. Do you have a copy? I have turned this place upside down looking for one. While we put his notes in order I had a lot of time to visit with Ralph. He was quite a man! He judged my Barred Rocks at an APA National out here in 79...I think it was. They had extremely wide bodies. I will have to find more pics of the barred rocks that came from that male. Oliver Bowen was used to winning with his white Rocks and these barred's started to ruin his days at shows.
About 20 years ago two Basset hounds put me out of the Barred Rock business. Someday I will have some again. I love them!
Quote:
I posted the pic to show the tail.
My printing company printed that booklet. Do you have a copy? I have turned this place upside down looking for one. While we put his notes in order I had a lot of time to visit with Ralph. He was quite a man! He judged my Barred Rocks at an APA National out here in 79...I think it was. They had extremely wide bodies. I will have to find more pics of the barred rocks that came from that male. Oliver Bowen was used to winning with his white Rocks and these barred's started to ruin his days at shows.
About 20 years ago two Basset hounds put me out of the Barred Rock business. Someday I will have some again. I love them!
- Status
Similar threads
New posts New threads Active threads
-
Latest threads
-
-
-
Broody Jail! So proud of my husband's creation!
- Started by Dhkoenig
- Replies: 0
-
-
Tapeworm treatment questions- Started by 5crazies
- Replies: 8
-
-
Threads with more replies in the last 15 days
-
