Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[saladin]

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[HallFamilyFarm]

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And it was good to finally meet the one and only Saladin! and son!

Had an issue when we got home with that lovely Chocolate Muscovy hen. Our father/son team forgot their affection for each other and started a two day war over the new girl. the other ducks just enjoyed the loss of affection for a few days. Father won out and got the new duck. Son is content with one of the old girls. Yesterday all the ducks were following yours around like she was the leader. She is new and barely can find the swimming pool, let alone anything else. Why does the entire herd of cattle follow the new cow like she knows what is going on?

 

[saladin]

Quote:

And it was good to finally meet the one and only Saladin! and son!

Had an issue when we got home with that lovely Chocolate Muscovy hen. Our father/son team forgot their affection for each other and started a two day war over the new girl. the other ducks just enjoyed the loss of affection for a few days. Father won out and got the new duck. Son is content with one of the old girls. Yesterday all the ducks were following yours around like she was the leader. She is new and barely can find the swimming pool, let alone anything else. Why does the entire herd of cattle follow the new cow like she knows what is going on?

BECAUSE SHE'S THE PRETTIEST! LOL

It was great to meet you to Jim. I loved the Show.

 

[kfacres]

Do you think G'ma really had a true flock of heritage birds? Of do you think they were just hatchery based birds, that get magnified in rememberance?

I know where my grandma and great grandma's birds came from-- and it wasn't no heritage flock... I remember my grandma running a flock of white leghorns, and a few brown leghorns mixed in. Also remember some RIR type birds... My great grandma-- I remember white leghorns and barred rocks, and some EE type birds. This is stretching way back though, in my head.

The only heritage part about those birds, was the fact they were long ago, and self replacing. Hens went broody, and hatched their own. Grandma had a 'bator, and tons of white and bronze turkeys.. they reproduced like you wouldn't believe. roosing in the walnut tree over the chicken house, and all over the place...

just b/c you drove down some gravel road, and saw a group of chickens... doesn't mean they were any more heritage than today's hatchery purchased birds are.

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Back in my Grandmother's day, the hatcheries stock was a lot closer to the Standard than we have today. The hatcheries would buy stock from the stringmen and large breeders. They just moved away from those original breeders to what they have today. Some hatcheries are trying. Several told me at crossroads that they ahve shipped hatching eggs to Ideal Poultry Farms. John Metzer of Metzer Farms had a booth at Crossroads. Was so nice meeting him and vsiiting. He has acquired some top show lines for his breeders. Even got all of one breed from Holdereads.

 

[Delight in Dominiques]

Kfacres, Here is an article from the mid to late 1800's that is really puts a stamp on heritage, long but well worth the read. John





The Fanciers' journal and poultry exchange 1875

GOSSIP WITH AN OLD FARMER. We chanced upon a sterling old-fashioned farmer, not long ago, who interested us in a pleasant chat of an hour or two upon the subject of poultry keeping, as he viewed it. Many of this worthy man's ideas were good, and though not altogether novel, will be appreciated by the large class of his brother farmers, who, we are happy to say, are subscribers and readers of the' Journal. " I've bred chickens to a considerable extent for over forty year," he said, pointing away across his garden-patch to a large flock of very good looking barn-yard fowls;" and yender's the kind I've kept on the place, year in an' year out, for a'most half a century." " What breeds do you fancy, as best for your purposes ? " we enquired, walking over towards his collection, in the open field. " Ah, yes," he returned. " I know this is your hobby. I read the poultry papers. Been a subscriber to the FANCiErs' Journal two years. I like your paper. It contains a deal of good sound instruction and information on fowl matters, always. But I'm ou'y a plain farmer, not a " fancier," as you term it." "You have got a nice lot of birds here, nevertheless," we suggested, upon reaching a point where they could be seen. " Bred on the place, sir," he continued. " It comes out o' good old-fashioned stock, raised in Massachusetts long afore / begun with it." " The Dominiques prevail here," we said, looking the flock over. " Well, that is what some call 'em, I know. But we never minded much about names for our fowls. We think them very good for every-day uses, and we only know they are of the race long ago designated as— " The old gray hens with yellow legs. That lay its owner many eggs." "You've heerd o' that breed, of course? It's a good 'un. Eggs are what we farmers go for. An' the chickens are very good eatin,' as well. We raise a great many, eat all we want, and dispose of a hundred or two in the fall, to a fair proflt in market, without looking for "fancy" prices, o' course." " They are in very thrifty condition, and are quite uniform in color for the most part," we suggested. " You take good care of them, evidently." " Yes, we do. What's the use o' keepin' live creeturs about a farm, except with an eye to profit, more or less ? " "You are correct, sir." " And you can't keep 'em so, 'nless you do take good keer of 'em." " That is so," we agreed. " Now we don't bother .about the fancy or new-fangled breeds much. We are satisfied with our own. I go to the chicken shows, sometimes. They are very interesting exhibitions. An' I see and hear a great deal there about this an' that foreign breed. But I come home, look our flocks over, an' say to myself—' let well enough alone, old boy. You're on'y a farmer.' The Cochins, an' Shangees, an Bramies, an' Spanglers, an' Derbies, an' so on are all well enough for them that likes novelties. We are content with ours, for the purposes we breed 'em." ^Vhat are these ? " was our next inquiry, noticing a dozen or two smallish, dark brown, duck-legged fowl amongst the rest. "Ah, them's the birds for eggs, sir. We call 'em Creepers. That's all the name we've ever had for 'em, to distinguish them from the longer-legged chickens." " And they are prolific, you say ? " " Excellent layers, an' the best mothers, for hatchin, on the place, sir." " And you have never tried the introduction of Asiatic or other foreign blood among them 1 " " No! What do we want o' that, here ? " " It increases the size and weight, for age " " Yes, very likely. We havn't tried it. That may be desirable. But we've got in the Creepers the best o' sitters and mothers. In the Grays, we've got layers that can't be beat easy, take 'em the year through—and they don't plague us with broodiness." " But the fresh blood will tend to increase the size of your fowls, and this gives you more marketable meat, in a given time, at about the same cost." " It m;iy be," said our agricultural friend. " I don't dispute that. But I'm old-fashioned in my notions, I s'p'ose. I know what I've got, now. An' though I notice the experiments, as you print 'em, an' often hear how well some poultryraen do with the new-fangled breeds, I don't care to run no risks. Mine are good enough, an' they breed regular enough, for my use. We set from fifteen to twenty o' the " Creepers " every year. We get out a hunderd an' fifty chickens, may be. Some years more. From an average of fifty layin' hens we obtain six hunderd dozen eggs—which we send to market, at about a quarter of a dollar a dozen. Then we eat a good many eggs, and have plenty of poultry on our table, besides the increase of stock killed off annually in the fall." " And this pays you well? " " Satisfactory. But, though it isn't a large operation, it helps, you see. An' it's more profitable than pork or sheep in proportion to cost, care and feed. How do you like my birds, sir ? " he concluded, pleasantly. " They show good care, they are in excellent thrift, and there is strong evidence of Dominique blood amongst them," we sug. gested. " This is one of our best American varieties, and is a very popular race. The new " Plymouth Rocks " are made up in part from this blood and they are becoming very notable among fanciers of good stock." "Yes, I've seen 'em. The Plymouth Rocks are a'most exactly like our Grays, or Dominicks, as you call 'em. On'y they have dark legs, often. An' in market the yellow leg is what is preferred. The Plymouth Rocks are good, I reck'n. But still the old gentleman favored his own. They were cross bred but a splendid lot of common fowl. And he takes pride in caring for them as poultry should be attended to. After an examination of his stock and premises, and his mode of raising fowls for eggs and marketing purposes, we left him, satisfied that he understood his business, and that his " Grays" and " Creepers " though emphatically old-styled, were very good birds for this farmers' uses. When is a schoolboy like a postage stamp? When he gets licked and put in a comer to stick to his letters.

 

[kfacres]

ya, so everybody raised the chickens which met their goals... sounds to me like in this letter-- they didn't really do that... sounds to me like they had a set of hens that laid eggs like crazy.. had a set of creepers that hatched out eggs like crazy.. and had the greys which were good eating... sounds to me like they had leghorns for eggs, dom for meat, and silkies for broodiness-- or their equalivent...

so your definition of heritage is different that whats going on today with diversity- and not one single do it all bird? Sounds to me like this is no different, and they had specific lines of birds to do specific duties....

I guess, I don't see it... sorry folks-


"meybee etts my 'terp-ra-tation, good 'rong"

It is a very good article though-- not as long as I would have expected

 

[Outlier]

Good Article!

I really like the emphasis on profitability and yet staying with a breed despite the presence of supposed "better stock". Seems like this is the way the old breeds were preserved rather than replaced by the imports during the 19th century and by the CornishX and production leghorn today. Good ole' stubbornness.

 

[Tracydr]

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I think if you don't have a cocci problem there is no reason to feed medicated feed. However, not sure if raising on wire is such a great thing, as your birds have no natural immunity to anything when introduced to dirt.
I don't feed medicated and never have. I've never had a problem, not here or in Ok or CO. I do raise chicks on dirt, however, so thet are introduced to low levels of local pathogens early.
Medicated feed only treats for cocci. If you don't have it in your dirt, it won't help you with anything else. It also won't treat full blown infections since it's just a low dose. I figure, if my chicks get it, I'm going to put them on a treatment dose, anyway. I don't want any resistance to medications building up by having them on low dose medications.

 

[gjensen]

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I think if you don't have a cocci problem there is no reason to feed medicated feed. However, not sure if raising on wire is such a great thing, as your birds have no natural immunity to anything when introduced to dirt.
I don't feed medicated and never have. I've never had a problem, not here or in Ok or CO. I do raise chicks on dirt, however, so thet are introduced to low levels of local pathogens early.
Medicated feed only treats for cocci. If you don't have it in your dirt, it won't help you with anything else. It also won't treat full blown infections since it's just a low dose. I figure, if my chicks get it, I'm going to put them on a treatment dose, anyway. I don't want any resistance to medications building up by having them on low dose medications.

I put the birds on wire from four to eight weeks. At eight weeks they are on the ground. 1-4 wks indoor brooder box with bedding. 4-8wks outdoor brooder boxes with a wire bottom (and dropping board). If after all these years I have never had cocci, I would guess that the method must be ok. I have NEVER lost any birds once they have access to range. I have never lost a bird to or seen signs of cocci. I have lived in the humid southeast, and in a few places, all of this time. Others in the area deal with it. I haven't and I do not use medicated feed. My method of raising them up, was acclimating them to being without a heat source. At eight weeks they are feathered out and expected to be able to deal with no supplemental heat source.
I lost two chicks out of eighty this year. They were both questionable soon after hatching. That is 100% if you exclude the two that had issues from the start. Last year, I didn't lose any, but I had half as many. The same for the year before. I don't want to change if it has worked so well. If I ever have the problem, I might make an adjustment. All of my birds are in excellent shape, and get to range on grass, scratch through leaf litter, etc. from eight weeks on.
What I might change this year is when I hatch and what it might take to do it. I hope to hatch and raise up more this year, and have it done before it gets hot.