Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Pozees]

When you refer to bringing in new stock, you are probably referring to out and out breeding or flock sourcing (bringing in new roosters from different sources or from the same source, respectfully) but over time, this can lead to inconsistent production rather than the improvement breeding you will want to seek and the latter, though better, doesn't really help you maintain the diversity of your breed. Other systems are flock mating, rolling matings (old farmer's method) or spiral matings (clan matings). Schrider has said that some breeders have kept a flock for 80 years without the introduction of new blood by using spiral mating. Both rolling matings and especially spiral mating methods will let you maintain genetic diversity within your flock as a whole and improvement breeding (keeping your best in each group). Flock mating is not as controlled as you are just keeping a several males in a flock as one breeding unit (this is usually the large hatchery method & is why their stock generally declines) -- this would also be a confusing way for me to do it. 

Help. Can you describe these two methods?

Thanks

 

[FeyRaine]

Thanks for the feedback on my point #3, that is exactly why I joined BYC, guidance & learning

I don't think it changes my plans per se, but I will look deeper into line breeding in chickens as I get to that stage and take into this concern about taking a step backwards when adding new birds in the farther future.


I was coming from larger animals, like say my Dairy goats, where one buys the best one
can afford to start, then improves by careful purchase of each future male to be an improvement across the last set of daughters.

What are the thoughts if any about pros & cons on having these very isolated lines and not remixing them across the overall breed.
The benchmark in my head for this is Heirloom Corn where 250 seeds is considered minimal and some effort to remix w/ others growing your strain is encouraged.
It's apples & oranges, plants vs chickens but that was my mental background on the issue.


Can anyone point me to something to read if there is such on what the Standard would be, not of a breed itself, but of how to maintain a breed or line. Perhaps that really is the core topic of this thread but are there any gen. accepted rules? established guidelines etc which I need to go read?

Thanks
FeyRaine

 

[CluckyCharms]

I would love to know who has the most heritage breeds and how you deal with the different aspects of flock management and location control, etc. please.

The reason I ask is because there are now 3 heritage breeds I want to end up having, and helping preserve via breeding the right way. However - I'm worried that having so many birds and three different breeds is going to cause problems amongst them.

Can you show me pictures of appropriately sectioned off pens? Would I have to have three different large chicken coops for the three different breeds? I would imagine I would (which I don't mind) but then I wonder because I don't want to let all of them free range at the same time because then of course I'd have the issue of 1 breed fertilizing the eggs of another breed, etc.

So do you free range them on different days for each breed or different times throughout the day? I was thinking well...fencing off sections would be okay because then they can all free range but that caused me to wonder because chickens fly (somewhat) even when wings are clipped they can jump the fence and mix...and I don't want that.

So ...how do you do it and how many different heritage breeds to have and how did you set them up?

Thanks! And yes, I might be overthinking it all but if I am, please say so nicely, without attacking me for being ignorant (ignorance isn't a bad thing, it's being ignorant and not caring to learn that is a bad thing).

[Edited to add] This will not take place until 2 years from now according to the deal I made with my husband. BUT...I want to learn what I can *now* so the errors I make will be lessened due to already knowing these things.

 

[campinechickens]

 
I THINK what I will do - all things considered, is wait the two years my husband has requested of me.  He said, if I raise the five chickens we already have, and I thoroughly enjoy it, take excellent care of them without asking him to help (and he shouldn't, they're my project so I understand) - and still am this excited two years from now, he said he has no problem moving to a small place in the country where I can have as many as I want and roosters to go along with them.  He said at that point in time he'd be happy to help build whatever is needed for their housing and runs, and separating pens and go with me anywhere I want or need to go to get the chickens I want, and said he would attend shows with me.  He just wants me to be in this for 2 years before I go all crazy and start demanding we move and get this and that and the other thing.  He has a good head on his shoulders and he's not bossing me around - he's making sense and putting his foot down as a man (in my opinion) should. 

I'm willing to wait 2 years and see if my chicken obsession is still going strong.   I think it's a fair deal.

In the meantime I'm going to delve a little deeper into breeding quality chickens.  I don't have to breed in order to be a reputable and good breeder.  Just knowing the proper methods is a step in a very good direction.

I have my eye on the silver grey dorking, but I'm totally interested in learning all about the other breeds that are considered heritage as well.

Just as a small piece of information:  I prefer the massive birds (big fat feathery ones) and I'm not keen on tiny bantams.  I also favor feathered feet but they're not an absolute MUST have.  If there are rare heritage breeds out there that are huge and feathery and feather-footed, that are not very easy to come by - please let me know.

try this link: http://www.oneearthfarm.com/chickens/brahmas.html
they are expensive but exactly what you were wanting. and sooo gorgeous!

I think that sounds like a great plan!

 

[CluckyCharms]

try this link: http://www.oneearthfarm.com/chickens/brahmas.html
they are expensive but exactly what you were wanting. and sooo gorgeous!
I think that sounds like a great plan!

Thank you for the link. =)

 

[campinechickens]

@cgmccary That is exactly why I am looking for Buckeyes. But now, I'm a little concerned being told they require the 30% protein starter b/c that doesn't feel like what they would have been getting on a homestead back when, & my goal is to get my homestead animals away from feed store feeds as I am able to produce our own feeds here on farm (not there yet, but aiming towards it). BTW- I had exactly this issue w/ rabbits, all the production/modern meat breeds require such specialized high protein feed that it didn't work out for us to raise them, just not functional on a small scale. I get the economy of scale, grow fast protein conversion plan for big commercial producers, but that is just opposite of the needs of someone aiming for self-sufficient homestead food production. So in the opinion of those more knowledgeable than I, would any of the Lg breed in need of preservation dual purpose breeds be better (than Buckeye) for a real old fashioned homestead situation like I have here. I had settled on Buckeye but I am open to being told there is a better choice for me. I'm ready to take the step to a rare old breed to help keep the gene pool going but it helps nobody if I pick a bad match for me. (I'm in the mtns & have had temps on rare occations to -20F in winter, but also sometimes to 80F in Dec & Jan, snow to 12 inches as late as April, Summer droughts 5-8 wks long, temps over 100 for up to 3 wks running.) I need a cold & heat hardy bird that will give me above avg. egg production, and culls dress out to something better than a game hen size, something w/ real meat on it. It is a lot to ask of one breed I know, but they do not need to be fast maturing (I can give up some time in trade for their ability to self feed to some extent on free range). I feel like my situation is very much like the folks 100-200 yrs ago so surely their breeds are where I need to seek for a bird that can fill that need. I'm very interested in the opinions on best breed for me from those on this wonderful thread, most of you clearly know far more than I do about these breeds.... All input welcome Thanks FeyRaine

We have a few Buckeyes and never fed them 30% protein feed. The rooster is massive and the hen lays well. We feed ours fermented grain, which allows them to get more out of the food they eat and as a result they eat less. Plus if yours would be free ranging they would eat less anyway.

 

[FOGELLY]

I would love to know who has the most heritage breeds and how you deal with the different aspects of flock management and location control, etc. please.

The reason I ask is because there are now 3 heritage breeds I want to end up having, and helping preserve via breeding the right way.  However - I'm worried that having so many birds and three different breeds is going to cause problems amongst them.

Can you show me pictures of appropriately sectioned off pens? Would I have to have three different large chicken coops for the three different breeds?  I would imagine I would (which I don't mind) but then I wonder because I don't want to let all of them free range at the same time because then of course I'd have the issue of 1 breed fertilizing the eggs of another breed, etc.

So do you free range them on different days for each breed or different times throughout the day?   I was thinking well...fencing off sections would be okay because then they can all free range but that caused me to wonder because chickens fly (somewhat) even when wings are clipped they can jump the fence and mix...and I don't want that.

So ...how do you do it and how many different heritage breeds to have and how did you set them up?

Thanks!  And yes, I might be overthinking it all but if I am, please say so nicely, without attacking me for being ignorant (ignorance isn't a bad thing, it's being ignorant and not caring to learn that is a bad thing).

[Edited to add]  This will not take place until 2 years from now according to the deal I made with my husband. BUT...I want to learn what I can *now* so the errors I make will be lessened due to already knowing these things.

We have three Heritage Breeds. Rhode Island Reds, Columbian Plymouth Rocks, and Barred Plymouth Rocks.
We have multiple pens but do run a lot of them together..When I breed the different breeds I select particular birds to mate. Not all of our birds are breeders. They are then put in breeding pens apart from the rest the flock. I usually have 2-3 hens to one rooster. Rotate a second rooster every three weeks. You have a lot more control over what you end up when you breed your best birds. You will be surprised how many chicks you can raise from 2-3 hens and 1-2 roosters.

Ron

 

[CluckyCharms]

We have three Heritage Breeds. Rhode Island Reds, Columbian Plymouth Rocks, and Barred Plymouth Rocks.
We have multiple pens but do run a lot of them together..When I breed the different breeds I select particular birds to mate. Not all of our birds are breeders. They are then put in breeding pens apart from the rest the flock. I usually have 2-3 hens to one rooster. Rotate a second rooster every three weeks. You have a lot more control over what you end up when you breed your best birds. You will be surprised how many chicks you can raise from 2-3 hens and 1-2 roosters.
Ron

Thank you for your input. I don't mind them running around together or even the roosters doing what roosters do and jumping everything with an apron, but my main concern was the fact that if I let them do that, I wouldn't know which eggs were pure and which eggs were not...to further the program. So - what you said made sense. I can keep them running around together, but collect the eggs and eat them (no problem there, we love eggs)...then when I want to get 'down to business' I can separate them at that time? I think that's basically what you said but I'm just making sure. That's **much** easier than the confusion I was putting in my brain. haha

I think I read somewhere that hens can produce eggs from a certain roo for up to 3 weeks after the "deed", so I would have to separate them all and then wait 3 weeks, and then after that it's okay to start hatching the eggs and be certain they're pure, right? How man hens and roosters should I have in 1 "pen" when it comes time to do this?

After reading the ALBC on heritage defined - I don't see anywhere where I'd have to have nothing but that breed participate in development of the chicks. It just says they have to have heritage parents, grandparents and multi-generational proof of heritage. That being said - could I hatch the actual eggs under a broody Silkie?

 

[campinechickens]

Is there anyone out there who could mentor me with my Gold Campines?

Walt, you said you plant true culls in the garden. How does that work?

Someone said that Buckeyes are a true homestead fowl. Can you give your definition of a true homestead fowl, some breeds that fit the bill and why? Open question, to everybody.

Thanks!

 

[campinechickens]

I would love to know who has the most heritage breeds and how you deal with the different aspects of flock management and location control, etc. please.

The reason I ask is because there are now 3 heritage breeds I want to end up having, and helping preserve via breeding the right way.  However - I'm worried that having so many birds and three different breeds is going to cause problems amongst them.

Can you show me pictures of appropriately sectioned off pens? Would I have to have three different large chicken coops for the three different breeds?  I would imagine I would (which I don't mind) but then I wonder because I don't want to let all of them free range at the same time because then of course I'd have the issue of 1 breed fertilizing the eggs of another breed, etc.

So do you free range them on different days for each breed or different times throughout the day?   I was thinking well...fencing off sections would be okay because then they can all free range but that caused me to wonder because chickens fly (somewhat) even when wings are clipped they can jump the fence and mix...and I don't want that.

So ...how do you do it and how many different heritage breeds to have and how did you set them up?

you could let them free range together, then when you are ready to start collecting eggs you could separate them for a few weeks to ensure they are being fertilized by the right rooster.

I have Campines, I keep the roosters in separate pens(3x4) and let the hens run together. I am not at a point (or location) where they can free range, but I wish I could. There is no grass here, nothing for them to eat. So we feed them twice a day (fermented grain). Our outside fences are 6 ft tall, and we haven't had a problem with birds flying over. The only thing I've had a problem with is the hens pushing the gate open if I forget to lock it .