BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[CanadianBuckeye]

It's my understanding that feed must be fermented anaerobically, ie all under water, right? Is there any type of grain/legume that should not be fermented? I watched a foodie show the other night that explained why day old cooked rice could be dangerous if not cooled/refrigerated properly (Bacillus cereus = food poisoning) which was news to me.
how do you know that your food is fermenting properly? I don't want go give my chickens botulism by mistake.

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

Don't know why anyone would want to feed medicated feed but those who do and ferment it don't seem to think it has any effect on the medicine therein....don't know how they could tell, though, as fermenting the feed likely does more than the medicine to prevent the coccidiosis.

Here's some info on some of the probiotic organisms produced in fermentation of feed....

Where does the Pediococcus come from, is it associated with any particular grain/legume?

 

[abbevilleoz]

I recently attended a seminar hosted by the Clemson University extension program. A retired professor of poultry science said of all the research they conducted on chicken diet. The one outstanding contributor with obvious positive health and development effects was developing and sustaining probiotic balance.

 

[Beekissed]

It's my understanding that feed must be fermented anaerobically, ie all under water, right? Is there any type of grain/legume that should not be fermented? I watched a foodie show the other night that explained why day old cooked rice could be dangerous if not cooled/refrigerated properly (Bacillus cereus = food poisoning) which was news to me.
how do you know that your food is fermenting properly? I don't want go give my chickens botulism by mistake.

No, it doesn't have to be fermented anaerobically...that's misinformation that one particular site keeps spreading. Fermentation is an anaerobic process but one does not have to deny the feed mix air in order for that to happen. Many people seem confused on that point. Botulism are the bacteria that love a completely anaerobic environment...since we ferment in open containers, it's highly unlikely you'll ever give a chicken botulism from feeding them FF.

Here's a small excerpt from a site about fermentation of vegetables that may help you understand the difference....

, 12, 13, 17, 18), and several papers have reported pediococci as the dominant microbial population on forage crops and silage.

 

[3riverschick]

Hi Beekissed,
It is difficult and time-consuming to ferment feed when one is feeding 1,000 to 50,000 or more broilers. Plus the raisers are seeking a feeding protocol which is as equal as possible for all their birds so they have a uniform growth ratios which can be studied and predicted. Some day soon the scientists will formulate a feeding protocol which (if necessary)will incorporate all the best parts of current research. It will be a great boon to the commercial broiler industry. And we who feed dry feed to our birds will profit from their work.
Best,
Karen

 

[omalicha]

How many cans or buckets will I need. FF in my last was a big big success. I sold out before I could blink. How can I ferment on a larger no. Drums? Whew! I wanted to know additional stuff to throw in to the ferment that can boost the weight gain ... More protein ? Anything?

 

[omalicha]

No one is laughing at you at all....I'm in complete agreement with the importance of establishing good gut health of the chickens from day one and I concur with the evidence of better health, better weight gains, etc. that this will cause.  

What I find slightly amusing is a company marketing something that can be obtained for free at home and acting like it's some new discovery they should get paid for..it's not and those fermenting their feed have known it for some time now. 

These things?   They are just a fancy way of saying the same things we've been seeing from feeding our feed fermented...and I know exactly what it's like to be laughed at, we people who feed FF get that all the time from the more serious breeder set of chicken folk.     

Pls read my last post. Wanted to attach it here

 

[Turk Raphael]

It's my understanding that feed must be fermented anaerobically, ie all under water, right? Is there any type of grain/legume that should not be fermented? I watched a foodie show the other night that explained why day old cooked rice could be dangerous if not cooled/refrigerated properly (Bacillus cereus = food poisoning) which was news to me.
how do you know that your food is fermenting properly? I don't want go give my chickens botulism by mistake.

OKAY, I'll admit it. As part of my overall feed regimen, I feed fermented whole grains, including aprox. 1/5th brown rice, of the total. I feed other products daily, including high-quality dry and shaved raw horse meat about 3 times per week. Sound crazy and at odds? Perhaps but it works for ME and that's all that matters.

EDIT: For early morning spelling errors. Also to add, the rascals are filling up on apples that are somewhat rotten so I guess that counts as fermented.

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

No, it doesn't have to be fermented anaerobically...that's misinformation that one particular site keeps spreading. Fermentation is an anaerobic process but one does not have to deny the feed mix air in order for that to happen. Many people seem confused on that point. Botulism are the bacteria that love a completely anaerobic environment...since we ferment in open containers, it's highly unlikely you'll ever give a chicken botulism from feeding them FF.

Here's a small excerpt from a site about fermentation of vegetables that may help you understand the difference....


No grains that I know of that cannot be successfully fermented. You'll know it's fermented properly by the smell and appearance...we had one member who has access to a lab and the knowledge to test the organisms in the typical fermented feed setup and she reported on the results. I don't have the link to that particular post any longer but it was very informative and reassuring.

Thanks, I just want to clarify a few things. Are you fermenting grains only? I can buy a feed that has grains as well as green and yellow peas in it, can you ferment legumes? If the grain etc. is not whole (ie crushed) does that matter? So you just take the feed and add water over the top and wait a few days, that's it? My understanding of fermenting veggies is that you have to brine them- so you aren't adding anything but water or do you add any salt? I'm thinking of adding a kefir starter as @DesertChic suggested. What temperature should fermentation be done at and for how many days?
If chickens are free ranging, do they pick up enough bacteria etc. or does fermented food provide a more or more varied gut flora than what they can just pick up?
Thanks.

 

[Beekissed]

How many cans or buckets will I need. FF in my last was a big big success. I sold out before I could blink. How can I ferment on a larger no. Drums? Whew! I wanted to know additional stuff to throw in to the ferment that can boost the weight gain ... More protein ? Anything?

I'd consider large plastic totes for ease of access to the feed...some use large trash cans but I would find that too deep a receptacle to be able to feed out the entire thing comfortably. Feeding a thousand birds will always be problematic unless you have some kind of automated system like the commercial growers have, so it might as well be fermented feed that you are feeding.

I think in a situation like that, PVC would also become your friend....just simple PVC cut in half and situated on legs/feet for the feeding of so many birds. But, the good thing about such an endeavor is that you won't be doing this forever..just for one batch, right?

You can feed more protein if you like...I'm not a fan of boosting the weight gain of birds too quickly and especially while they are very young as it compromises their health and comfort.