BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[gjensen]

Thank you so much. My reason for wanting to go with TSC is that provided I check tags for dates, that's the place I can get the freshest feed as they have good turnover - I had some trouble starting out with "fancy schmancy" feed that was stale or had gone off (not enough turnover/demand, I suppose), and also I don't have TONS of chickens, so it does take some time to go through it. If I pick a common feed type for everyone (like Flock Raiser), then provided that it meets their needs with or without supplementation, they'll have fresher feed because I will go through one bag faster (rather than have two or three partial bags getting stale). Also, fancy schmancy had me driving all over creation for 2-3x as much money - and still it was sometimes stale...

I have a month or so to get them into condition - this afternoon I started mixing in the flock raiser into their feed to transition them, and I'm worming everyone right now anyway (breeder or not). Will dust them this week or weekend, though I've checked them carefully recently, and there's nothing I could see. They've been getting BOSS handfuls as treats the past few days, so I'll continue that, and I'll get Calf Manna next time I'm at TSC and check out the directions. I will probably only aim for hatching 4-6 out of my CLs this spring, as I'm not starting with much (three pullets, one of whom I'm not going to breed). I'm getting some hatching eggs in a week or two, so those will go in the 'bator first. I think I'm going to wait until next spring for hatches from my own NNs, as they aren't even 18 weeks yet - unless I try for a fall hatch.

I have Gail Damerow's Hatching & Brooding Your Own Chicks - which I have to say is really excellent! In the egg hatching part it discusses breeder health and it has a section on egg shape an hatch issues (didn't see it until after I asked here

...)

- Ant Farm

You have good reasons for shopping at TSC. Many overlook how old their feed might be. The feed needs to be fresh. The quality begins to decline quickly after a period of time. In hot summers, feed sitting in an unconditioned space, declines even faster. It is good to watch that the feed is moving out, and being replaced fast enough.

Flockraiser is a good feed. Dumor Chick Starter is as good and costs less. The two are compatible. You would spend less mixing chick starter and layer, or just chick starter alone. But. . . if you like Flockraiser, it is fine. Feed them that alone. Just add some calf manna and sunflower seeds during the breeding season. Breeders require a higher % of fat than producing birds. The feed is already short on fat. Fats (oils) go bad very fast. So supplementation during breeding season is helpful. Hulled sunflower seeds is good for adding some fat.

You might see some "kicken chicken", or whatever you call it at Tractor Supply. It is a supplement that could replace the sunflower seeds. On the horse aisle, they have the same product under another name in larger quantities for less. Just sprinkle a little around the rim everyday. A little goes along ways.

Compared to a Layer ration, you want more protein (18-20%), more fat, less calcium, higher vitamin A, E, etc.

The method is not as important as condition. If we are going to do it, we should do it well. Any experienced and respectable breeder, pays attention to the breeding bird's diet and condition. Study up on poultry nutrition, and review the different breeder rations. Compare them to a layer ration etc. You will begin to see where I am coming from. Then you can develop your own method, but make informed decisions doing it. You do want to keep it simple. If what is best for you to purchase is not up to par, it helps to know what to supplement.

A month is plenty of time to get them up to par. The trick though, is to keep them there.

Remember. It is not all diet. Sunshine, fresh air, clean water, enough space etc.

The best supplement that I know of is to open the door, and let them run.

Concerning your comments on egg shape . . . . I was not making it up when I made the remarks I did. And in this thread, we are supposed to be interested in breeding birds. The first thing we do is cull eggs. We do not set off shaped eggs in the incubator to begin with. Not only will our percentages be lower, we are perpetuating mediocrity or worse. It is a highly heritable characteristic, and it I hard to breed out once established. It does matter.

Chickens produce eggs. The quality of eggs that they produce should matter to us.

 

[dfr1973]

As things change and evolve with the flock, I find myself revisiting some of the same questions (like this one), often with different perspective and therefore different answers. And, indeed, I figure it'll be like this for years as I continue to learn...

- Ant Farm

Another thing I forgot to mention: the original impetus for getting off the layer rations was because of my capons. They don't need as much calcium as laying hens, and over time it puts some stress on their kidney to filter out what is not needed. So after investigating my options in my area, I went with my current mix with oyster shell on the side for layers. My birds look good, and my eggs both look and taste terrific.

 

[gjensen]

Hello Mr. Jensen. Breeder ration feed kind of caught my eye. You went right into chicks so fast on this comment, I got the 2 confused. Could you divulge a bit more on what you are feeding breeder stock. I currently feed all my birds as if they were breeders.

I replied to Ant Farm's post with you in mind.

I simply feed my birds a breeder ration. Recently, I have had access to a game bird breeder. For as long as I have access to this feed, this is what I will feed. I believe in breeders being fed a feed formulated for breeders. A layer ration for layers, chick starter for starting chicks, and a breeder ration for breeders. If I do not have access to a breeder ration, I will modify what is available.

I still like to throw them some corn (behavior management), and soak them some oats.

The best help for keeping them in top condition is keeping some greens in their "pasture" and letting them roam.

The method is not as important as condition.

 

[gjensen]

Another thing I forgot to mention: the original impetus for getting off the layer rations was because of my capons. They don't need as much calcium as laying hens, and over time it puts some stress on their kidney to filter out what is not needed. So after investigating my options in my area, I went with my current mix with oyster shell on the side for layers. My birds look good, and my eggs both look and taste terrific.

Layer rations have too much calcium for everything but layers.

 

[gjensen]

Without going into "quote overload" to thank everyone individually, I wanted to note that I find the discussion of feed strategies very helpful. As things change and evolve with the flock, I find myself revisiting some of the same questions (like this one), often with different perspective and therefore different answers. And, indeed, I figure it'll be like this for years as I continue to learn...

- Ant Farm

Become familiar with poultry nutrition. The more you know, the more equipped you are to make informed decisions. When someone asks you why, you should be able to give them an informed answer. Remember, chickens are low fiber, high energy animals. Build on that.

Most just do it because someone else does, or it seams like a good idea. They have chicks hatching, so they believe that they are successful. This is as far as their efforts will go until they stumble across something that sounds better.

Most are going to be happy if chicks hatch, and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Without going into "quote overload" to thank everyone individually, I wanted to note that I find the discussion of feed strategies very helpful. As things change and evolve with the flock, I find myself revisiting some of the same questions (like this one), often with different perspective and therefore different answers. And, indeed, I figure it'll be like this for years as I continue to learn...

- Ant Farm

Ha! What @gjensen posted while I was typing this. We feed "Breeder Ration" to our birds, which we use as a base feed for the other birds. It is packed full of nutrition that breeders need to be in good condition, fertile, and produce super nutritious eggs. Extra calcium on the side for the layers, extra grain for the ducks, some tweaks for the fresh chicks.

We gave the mill our parameters (dual purpose breeders, layers, chicks, birds growing out, and a few ducks) and they came up with a base feed that works for all the birds. For pricing, it's about mid-range for what was available at the feed store (more than the national brand, less than the boutique brands), and it has all the buzz words that appeal to the egg customers, and it's always mixed to order so is always super fresh. Our birds are doing much better on this feed than they were on the Farm Store stuff, tough lately the big national brands seem to be tweaking their recipes to help provide better long-term health for backyard flocks.

There are probably cheaper ways to feed, but our customers are picky and we tend to be too busy here to have a "fussy" feed system.

Locally, the customers have a lot of power over what the small poultry farms selling eggs and meat feed their birds. We really must know what is in our feed.

 

[ronott1]

On the topic of feed... I've very old school and like my chickens to clean up waste and turn a profit. My birds go to bed with a crop full of oats to keep them thru the night. They have enough "home made feed" and a bunch of greens to get them thru the next morning until I can let them out around 9AM. During the day they free range and work the pig pens for waste. Pigs spill a lot of food. The "home made" feed for pigs and chickens is grocery store bread (800 pounds/$50), protein shake powder ( free from a local factory), oyster shell and kelp meal. I guess that's a little unorthodox these days, but I estimate may eggs have about an 80% profit margin. Oh I also give them cooked beef and pork liver when it doesn't sell.

This is how my Appalachian grandfather fed his birds and they were definitely self sustaining. I also lived for a while on a commercial dairy in Austria where they had geese and chickens cleaning up after the cows. Those birds never got purchased feed but they profitably produced tons of eggs and the 50 or so geese were butchered and sold at Christmas for a tidy profit. I'm not advocating for any particular method of feeding but if you are breeding for egg and meat production you must at some point be looking at why you do it. For me it has to be about profit.

Anthony

What you are doing is great!

I suspect that 99% of BYC members cannot do what you are doing though. Most have back yard chickens in the City--no Pigs allowed!

Some day though....I would love to have pigs.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

You have good reasons for shopping at TSC. Many overlook how old their feed might be. The feed needs to be fresh. The quality begins to decline quickly after a period of time. In hot summers, feed sitting in an unconditioned space, declines even faster. It is good to watch that the feed is moving out, and being replaced fast enough.

Flockraiser is a good feed. Dumor Chick Starter is as good and costs less. The two are compatible. You would spend less mixing chick starter and layer, or just chick starter alone. But. . . if you like Flockraiser, it is fine. Feed them that alone. Just add some calf manna and sunflower seeds during the breeding season. Breeders require a higher % of fat than producing birds. The feed is already short on fat. Fats (oils) go bad very fast. So supplementation during breeding season is helpful. Hulled sunflower seeds is good for adding some fat.

You might see some "kicken chicken", or whatever you call it at Tractor Supply. It is a supplement that could replace the sunflower seeds. On the horse aisle, they have the same product under another name in larger quantities for less. Just sprinkle a little around the rim everyday. A little goes along ways.

Compared to a Layer ration, you want more protein (18-20%), more fat, less calcium, higher vitamin A, E, etc.

The method is not as important as condition. If we are going to do it, we should do it well. Any experienced and respectable breeder, pays attention to the breeding bird's diet and condition. Study up on poultry nutrition, and review the different breeder rations. Compare them to a layer ration etc. You will begin to see where I am coming from. Then you can develop your own method, but make informed decisions doing it. You do want to keep it simple. If what is best for you to purchase is not up to par, it helps to know what to supplement.

A month is plenty of time to get them up to par. The trick though, is to keep them there.

Remember. It is not all diet. Sunshine, fresh air, clean water, enough space etc.

The best supplement that I know of is to open the door, and let them run.

Concerning your comments on egg shape . . . . I was not making it up when I made the remarks I did. And in this thread, we are supposed to be interested in breeding birds. The first thing we do is cull eggs. We do not set off shaped eggs in the incubator to begin with. Not only will our percentages be lower, we are perpetuating mediocrity or worse. It is a highly heritable characteristic, and it I hard to breed out once established. It does matter.

Chickens produce eggs. The quality of eggs that they produce should matter to us.

Thanks! Initially I thought these CLs were overly picky about their food (which I found frustrating). Now I think it is just that they are least tolerant of stale feed of all my chickens. So they are like my early warning group - if they like it and will eat it, then it is probably good. If they don't, then I look very carefully to see if I missed something or if it's gone bad. This time of year they get a lot of fresh green grass and bugs and run around in a large paddock all day long - they're a happy bunch. (In hottest summer I may need to supplement their greens - I'll grow fodder, easy enough to do at their scale.)

Re: egg shape, yep, I will only set good looking ones. (Easiest of all the culling!)

Based on general instructions I've read not to change feed suddenly, I mixed the layer with Flock Raiser 50:50 when refilling their feeder yesterday. Predictably, they are just picking out he Flock Raiser bits. I put some in my hand and they all went bananas for it - that's as good an indication to me as any that they need/want more protein in their feed.

How much Boss to you give per chicken? (I don't want to go overboard...)

- Ant Farm

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

Become familiar with poultry nutrition. The more you know, the more equipped you are to make informed decisions. When someone asks you why, you should be able to give them an informed answer. Remember, chickens are low fiber, high energy animals. Build on that.

Most just do it because someone else does, or it seams like a good idea. They have chicks hatching, so they believe that they are successful. This is as far as their efforts will go until they stumble across something that sounds better.

Most are going to be happy if chicks hatch, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Ha! What @gjensen posted while I was typing this. We feed "Breeder Ration" to our birds, which we use as a base feed for the other birds. It is packed full of nutrition that breeders need to be in good condition, fertile, and produce super nutritious eggs. Extra calcium on the side for the layers, extra grain for the ducks, some tweaks for the fresh chicks.

We gave the mill our parameters (dual purpose breeders, layers, chicks, birds growing out, and a few ducks) and they came up with a base feed that works for all the birds. For pricing, it's about mid-range for what was available at the feed store (more than the national brand, less than the boutique brands), and it has all the buzz words that appeal to the egg customers, and it's always mixed to order so is always super fresh. Our birds are doing much better on this feed than they were on the Farm Store stuff, tough lately the big national brands seem to be tweaking their recipes to help provide better long-term health for backyard flocks.

There are probably cheaper ways to feed, but our customers are picky and we tend to be too busy here to have a "fussy" feed system.

Locally, the customers have a lot of power over what the small poultry farms selling eggs and meat feed their birds. We really must know what is in our feed.

I suspect that eventually I may go the route of custom feed, either purchased (if I can find it at low volumes) or put together myself. But daytime job is pretty crazy, so I can't add that level of complexity - yet. But I will indeed be reading and learning. Thanks!!!!

- Ant Farm

 

[gjensen]

Thanks! Initially I thought these CLs were overly picky about their food (which I found frustrating). Now I think it is just that they are least tolerant of stale feed of all my chickens. So they are like my early warning group - if they like it and will eat it, then it is probably good. If they don't, then I look very carefully to see if I missed something or if it's gone bad. This time of year they get a lot of fresh green grass and bugs and run around in a large paddock all day long - they're a happy bunch. (In hottest summer I may need to supplement their greens - I'll grow fodder, easy enough to do at their scale.)

Re: egg shape, yep, I will only set good looking ones. (Easiest of all the culling!)

Based on general instructions I've read not to change feed suddenly, I mixed the layer with Flock Raiser 50:50 when refilling their feeder yesterday. Predictably, they are just picking out he Flock Raiser bits. I put some in my hand and they all went bananas for it - that's as good an indication to me as any that they need/want more protein in their feed.

How much Boss to you give per chicken? (I don't want to go overboard...)

- Ant Farm

When I feed sunflower seeds as a supplement, I feed them hulled sunflower seeds. A little goes a long ways. I do not measure it. I just throw them a few handfuls, and watch to make sure all get a little bit.