BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[Arielle]

I would like to see more information on the recreation of this breed-- who did the work and what breeds were used.

I contacted a sussex breeder and trust that her knowledge is far greater than mine and she has assured me that the SS is not a re-created breed. IT took almost 50 years to get it to be a reasonable type and color, so honestly I can't see how it could be recreated in a matter of just a few years.

 

[Arielle]

THe SOP has value and I respect those that enjoy breeding to the SOP as that is a remarkable challenge. Breeding tothe SOP does not negate breeding for thrift, or egg production, or meat production or health and vigor. It is a tool, not the be all and end all for many people that breed chickens. THough some have clearly taken it to the nth degree and have lost some utility trait, and vigor and any number of things can happen. Seen it in horses, seen it in dogs, seen it in sheep.

WE have choices as breeders of livestock.

 

[3riverschick]

Modern Sussex is a re creation of a much older breed.

Ah, I see the miscommunication now. Not really a miscommunication ,
just a bit more clarification needed. In the beginning was the Dorking
breed. It has been around since Roman times by the historical record.
The Romans brought them to England. An interesting side note I found
in an article on Roman trade history was when the Romans got to England
they found the Brits had already been breeding poultry for color and style.
Anyway, The Dorking persisted thru the centuries and eventually, depending
on the geographic area where they were bred and raised, became called
the Dorking or Surrey fowl. From them, because of the geographic area in
which they were bred and raised, arose the Sussex fowl. They had a
different body style from the Dorking and one less toe than the Dorkings.
The Surrey fowl eventually fell out of favor and declined. I don't know if it
exists in pure form any more. So, tho the Sussex did spring from the Dorking,
that is its ancestral heritage, not a recreation of the Dorking. The Dorking
is the fountainhead of the Sussex.
Best Regards,
Karen

 

[3riverschick]

I can see what you mean George-- the SS I have have a tail that is squirrel tail. I delved into tthis for a long time, asking about this . Only "don't use him" was the answer. Or about pinched tail-- don't use it. BUt not why or hwo to wrk with it. ALL my males have squirrel tail. All. I'm praying that sudenly a non-squirrel tail will appear. However, logic tells me that this is a process of altering the body shape until the tail sits were it is supposed to be WHEN the body shape is right. Maybe I am wrong .. . but it's all I"ve got right now.

The lower the tail, the longer the back. A longer back is more important than depth of keel.
All other things being equal, choose the longer back rather than the longest keel.
I did not make this up, it comes from a 1921 9 page booklet by Sussex Judge William White Broomhead.
A Sussex breeder and Judge back when the Sussex was raised for its meat. He later when
on to become President of the British Poultry Club.
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=coo.31924003137332;view=1up;seq=5
This is an excellent reference regardless of the variety one is breeding.
It deals with the general type and why it is so.
======
The pinched tail is indicative of a narrow rear end. You want breadth of body
for egg production sake and to make room for the reproductive organs. You can have a whipped tail in a body of proper width. The phrase "knows she has a liver." means the birds eats more than it needs to for the egg it produces.
Best,
Karen

 

[Arielle]

Quote: That's exactly what I had to figure out for myself-- what was pulling the tail UP in to a squirrel tail. THen one day Dragonlady, I think, said somthing about the length of back. SO I looked at all the boys and tried to judge who had minutely better tail positions. Missing sicles and tail feathers sure creates illusions THose with missing tal feathers look like they are better. BUt I don't know for certain if I picked the right ones. TIme will tell.

The pinched tail is one that makes no sense with its connection to a narrow rear end. THis is what I have run across repeatedly BUT when I dress out a bird and look at the tail and look at the feathering, how does the back translate into the tail. NO disrespect Karen, I don't see how the tail feathering means a broader back. Unless somehow a wider tail is genetically linked to a wider tail. A positive correlation.

 

[Arielle]

After butchering the 4 SS yesterday, and a cornishx I have been stumbling over why one over the other. THe SS were a distant second to the cornish ( same age).

OF course I cull the poor girl because she had stopped laying, her comb fading and her feet swelling. Once I cleaned her out I noticed a number of issues. Her belly was distended, and clear liquid leaked out upon opening the cavity; the sac around the heart was full of fluid. half the liver looked nrmal, the otheralf looked like a fatty liver. Generally too much wetness around all the organs.

IT made for an intersting lesson for the kids as they stood glued to my side as I compared this failing cornishx to the innards of a normal SS rooster.

 

[hellbender]

After butchering the 4 SS yesterday, and a cornishx I have been stumbling over why one over the other. THe SS were a distant second to the cornish ( same age).

OF course I cull the poor girl because she had stopped laying, her comb fading and her feet swelling. Once I cleaned her out I noticed a number of issues. Her belly was distended, and clear liquid leaked out upon opening the cavity; the sac around the heart was full of fluid. half the liver looked nrmal, the otheralf looked like a fatty liver. Generally too much wetness around all the organs.

IT made for an intersting lesson for the kids as they stood glued to my side as I compared this failing cornishx to the innards of a normal SS rooster.

Do you know how to caponize? Here's a suggestion...Why not Dark Cornish? They lay better than SS and really do not need to be caponized...just my preference for a much better finish to the carcass.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: I"m not one to caponize--- though I did look thoroughly at the dark cornish. I'm assuming you are talking abouut a productio dark cornish and not a SQ DC which apparently lay poorly.

I like the SS even if I can never get them to be meat birds again. THey are my favorites above all others that I have raised for their personalities and foraging. NEver see one just standing around, or sun bathing---busy busy busy.

 

[donrae]

Do you know how to caponize? Here's a suggestion...Why not Dark Cornish? They lay better than SS and really do not need to be caponized...just my preference for a much better finish to the carcass.

Has this been your experience? With birds from where? Folks I've talked to with dark Cornish say they don't lay well at all. If you have different experience I'd love to hear it.

 

[nicalandia]

Has this been your experience? With birds from where? Folks I've talked to with dark Cornish say they don't lay well at all. If you have different experience I'd love to hear it.

all things equal, the maintenance energy requirement for Larger meat type birds is much higher than smaller dual type birds, this is translated to lower rate of eggs