BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[gjensen]

Hello, I've been trying to catch up before posting anything, so far I have made it to page 190 (Jan 2015!). I've started skipping ahead reading the newest posts because there are so many catching up is difficult.
I plan on breeding for egg production, I'm interested in large, leghorn-white eggshell white eggs, but not from single combed breeds (e.g. Mediterranean breeds) and as soon as I catch up I hope it's OK if I ask a lot of questions. Lots of invaluable information on this thread. Thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge and experience- I'm really enjoying reading the posts.

What kind of comb do you want? Rose, Pea, Walnut. Rose combs would be the easiest to accomplish because there are Rose comb Leghorns already. You can cross a good typed exhibition strain with some commercial Leghorn layers.

 

[DesertChic]

I will fall back to my talking points, LOL. She is the sum of her parts, and she has been evaluated over an entire laying cycle. This one point does not tell me everything about her. By this time, you should know her pretty well, and have your own answer already.

BUT . . . my experience has been that these are good layers. I am only reluctant to say that publicly because people will latch on to that. Then if they see it, their mind is made up. Regardless of what she did the rest of the year.

I do not concern myself with burn out as I do longevity. Bee just mentioned our evaluation being short. I agree and disagree. My evaluation is the pullet year. 98% of the time, the best laying pullets are the best laying hens. The best laying pullet is usually the best laying hen in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th year etc.
There can eventually be some overlap with inferior fowl. Some that do not do well early in their life can maintain at a similar rate for some time and eventually do as well as the better birds. This hen is not to be commended however. Mediocrity should never be applauded. Truthfully, she should have been killed long ago.

So though I do not see a lot of value in counting her eggs past the second year, hopefully she is kept beyond her second year. I want to promote longevity by breeding older birds. That is how you promote health and longevity. By breeding older birds that have stood the test of time.

There are birds that never give us a reason to cull them. They are our true keepers. We fashion for ourselves all kinds of reasons to keep this bird and that bird. However, the birds that we emphasize are the ones that repeatedly, year after year, out perform their peers. And we do compare them to their peers. No others but their own generation.

I've learned a lot from you, so I want to make sure to thank you for sharing your knowledge. I have to admit that until recently I'd never even thought about chicken longevity 4+ years out. Up until finding the BYC, everyone nearby I'd spoken to about chickens insisted that you MUST replace all of them once they're two years old, but could never explain why. It's refreshing to have so many words of wisdom to refer to here and to know that there's no reason why I can't hold on to a good reliable hen for as long as she's healthy and productive.

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

What kind of comb do you want? Rose, Pea, Walnut. Rose combs would be the easiest to accomplish because there are Rose comb Leghorns already. You can cross a good typed exhibition strain with some commercial Leghorn layers.

Pea comb is what I'd prefer. I do have access to rose combed leghorns, but these would probably be exhibition lines. I figured a pea x single comb would be easier to select back to pea combs than a pea x rose comb cross. I have not seen any papers that show that a pea comb is incompatible with white egg shells so I'm a bit surprised there are no laying breeds with both features- (any that I've found I should say) although I know that white eggs are very much out of fashion these days.
My "perfect" chicken would lay a large, very white egg, have a small to medium size pea comb, featherless legs, no beard, muff or crest, and have the temperament of a good Buckeye with the foraging smarts of a hatchery Cornish. The body type I have in mind would lean towards dual purpose, similar to the British Ixworth or Welsh Black breeds. Some Chanteclers come close to laying a very pale egg but the eggs are not pure white. I could live with a walnut comb but prefer pea, I'd also prefer that it not be a white feathered chicken because they are too easily seen by predators,
I realize this is a "bucket list" type of project that could take me the rest of my life to accomplish- no rush. I'm still very much in the planning stage.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

I am enjoying this most recent discussion of selection for egg production, and learning a lot even if I may not apply all of it (for instance, I will probably not really be able to determine productivity per hen with certainty as I am not in a position to use trap nests, etc.) @gjensen , what is helpful about your comments (as well as those questions and comments of others) is that it points out the complexity, not only in the genetic and non-genetic factors, but also in the possible goals one might have. And, as we've discussed before, depending on one's goals, going broody may count as being productive as well, with regard to the flock as a whole.

So, in the end, at least for me, it is likely that it will be back to "Do I really know what my goals are for my chickens?" It'll be different for everyone depending on their husbandry practices and circumstances. And as goals and circumstances do tend to change, it is very useful to have all of this information.

Keep it coming!

- Ant Farm

 

[DesertChic]

I am enjoying this most recent discussion of selection for egg production, and learning a lot even if I may not apply all of it (for instance, I will probably not really be able to determine productivity per hen with certainty as I am not in a position to use trap nests, etc.) @gjensen , what is helpful about your comments (as well as those questions and comments of others) is that it points out the complexity, not only in the genetic and non-genetic factors, but also in the possible goals one might have. And, as we've discussed before, depending on one's goals, going broody may count as being productive as well, with regard to the flock as a whole.

So, in the end, at least for me, it is likely that it will be back to "Do I really know what my goals are for my chickens?" It'll be different for everyone depending on their husbandry practices and circumstances. And as goals and circumstances do tend to change, it is very useful to have all of this information.

Keep it coming!

- Ant Farm

Goals can definitely evolve and change over time. When I started I just wanted some eggs and meat that I knew with absolute certainty was "clean" as opposed to what we get in the grocery stores. Then I wanted only two separate flocks, one for eggs and one for meat, but egg color didn't matter and I had once seriously considered just getting regular shipment of broiler chicks to raise for meat. . Now.....did I mention I have about 67 birds? And none of them are broilers!

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

Goals can definitely evolve and change over time. When I started I just wanted some eggs and meat that I knew with absolute certainty was "clean" as opposed to what we get in the grocery stores. Then I wanted only two separate flocks, one for eggs and one for meat, but egg color didn't matter and I had once seriously considered just getting regular shipment of broiler chicks to raise for meat. . Now.....did I mention I have about 67 birds? And none of them are broilers!

Yikes! I know we're soul sisters, but I don't have time or space for 67 chickens!!! Then again, I started out wanting about 4, and I have 29 now. Uh oh...

Hey, I got the roof on my Nudist Colony coop finally, with the assistance of an impact driver. Do you have one of those? AMAZING! I also sucked it up and paid for a pneumatic stapler, given the serious long lasting carpel tunnel flare I got from manually hammering in the poultry staples by hand last time. Get to learn to use it tomorrow. Is there such a thing as Power Tool Math?!

- Ant Farm

 

[DesertChic]

Yikes! I know we're soul sisters, but I don't have time or space for 67 chickens!!! Then again, I started out wanting about 4, and I have 29 now. Uh oh...

Hey, I got the roof on my Nudist Colony coop finally, with the assistance of an impact driver. Do you have one of those? AMAZING! I also sucked it up and paid for a pneumatic stapler, given the serious long lasting carpel tunnel flare I got from manually hammering in the poultry staples by hand last time. Get to learn to use it tomorrow. Is there such a thing as Power Tool Math?!

- Ant Farm

Love my impact driver! And yes....a pneumatic stapler is a must. My electric stapler was good for installing insulation in the chicken cabin, but for the heavy work I seriously doubt I would have completed so many chicken projects without that pneumatic stapler. And if there is such a things as power tool math, you and I must both be suffering from it.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

Love my impact driver! And yes....a pneumatic stapler is a must. My electric stapler was good for installing insulation in the chicken cabin, but for the heavy work I seriously doubt I would have completed so many chicken projects without that pneumatic stapler. And if there is such a things as power tool math, you and I must both be suffering from it.

Totally! I sometimes wonder why I have so many tools. Then I look at what I've built and what I still have yet to build (and also consider the enormous time and sometimes injury from doing it the hard way), and then I don't wonder any more...

- Ant Farm

 

[AnthNDacula]

I'm going to digress for a moment from the pure topic of "production-eggs-and-or meat", but I promise I'll bring it all back round in a minute. Prior to WWII chickens were integral to most human societies. Of course there were exceptions in extreme areas like the Inuit people in the Arctic, and isolated islands where chickens never arrived, etc. but for the most part Gallus gallus cleaned up our trash, ate our pests, and provided cheap little packages of protein to keep our children growing healthily. That all changed in the US and other developed nations after the war with the rise of suburbia and a desire to protect our homes' values by keeping "trashy chicken people" out of our subdivisions. The result was a culture void of chickens and chicken knowledge. That has radically changed in the last few years. People have become chicken crazy, and I love it. I live in a fairly affluent Atlanta suburb where chickens have been VERBOTEN until just a few months ago. Today people across America are fighting to get birds back in their yards, and my county now allows most people to keep three hens. But no one has any idea what to do with those hens. Every neighborhood used to have a chicken guy/gal where you could get answers to your questions and buy a few good laying hens. Where is he/she now? He/she is in this group. Knowledge is being shared and and chicken husbandry is returning to our neighborhoods. Dare I hope that subdivisions are becoming neighborhoods again? The people in this group are more than hobbyists... they are leaders in a social movement to bring back part of our heritage... a heritage grounded in sustainability and local community. That path to that leadership takes us thru learning all we can about producing better meat and egg chickens. I'm thrilled to be learning from you all.

Anthony

 

[TNBielefelder]

Goals can definitely evolve and change over time. When I started I just wanted some eggs and meat that I knew with absolute certainty was "clean" as opposed to what we get in the grocery stores. Then I wanted only two separate flocks, one for eggs and one for meat, but egg color didn't matter and I had once seriously considered just getting regular shipment of broiler chicks to raise for meat. . Now.....did I mention I have about 67 birds? And none of them are broilers!

That's how it all gets started..loll..I know what you mean.