Breeding for Red Pyle

[Kamivy]

I know this is an older thread, but thought I would post a pic of a roo I hatched out of shipped eggs. Pure Australian araucana. He's quite striking, shame about the random black tail feathers tho.

 

[draye]

I know this is an older thread, but thought I would post a pic of a roo I hatched out of shipped eggs. Pure Australian araucana. He's quite striking, shame about the random black tail feathers tho.

Handsome fellow.

 

[magdelaine]

Hi there, I'm jumping in this thread because I have some Red Pyle Ameraucana hatching eggs in the incubator now. I got them from a breeder that has been working on this color for years, and her males are amazing looking. They are shipped eggs though, so who knows how they will hatch.

I also breed White Ameraucana and over the last few years I've made many crosses and thus discovered that they are not white/black splits but are hiding wheaten and probably wildtype. I'm not complaining and that makes the crosses really spectacular looking and that is one reason I'm getting the Red Pyles; I'm hoping they will also produce interesting crosses.

However, one of my white pullets this year has salmon leakage on her throat under her beard, in fact she looks just like the Red Pyle females I saw this breeder show. Does this mean that I've got dominant white mixed in with my White Am line? I'm trying to get my head around the genetics involved.

Anyway I'll post pics of the chicks if any hatch (fingers crossed!).

 

[draye]

Hi there, I'm jumping in this thread because I have some Red Pyle Ameraucana hatching eggs in the incubator now. I got them from a breeder that has been working on this color for years, and her males are amazing looking. They are shipped eggs though, so who knows how they will hatch.

I also breed White Ameraucana and over the last few years I've made many crosses and thus discovered that they are not white/black splits but are hiding wheaten and probably wildtype. I'm not complaining and that makes the crosses really spectacular looking and that is one reason I'm getting the Red Pyles; I'm hoping they will also produce interesting crosses.

However, one of my white pullets this year has salmon leakage on her throat under her beard, in fact she looks just like the Red Pyle females I saw this breeder show. Does this mean that I've got dominant white mixed in with my White Am line? I'm trying to get my head around the genetics involved.

Anyway I'll post pics of the chicks if any hatch (fingers crossed!).

Pictures would sure help.
@Kev

 

[Kev]

Hi there, I'm jumping in this thread because I have some Red Pyle Ameraucana hatching eggs in the incubator now. I got them from a breeder that has been working on this color for years, and her males are amazing looking. They are shipped eggs though, so who knows how they will hatch.

I also breed White Ameraucana and over the last few years I've made many crosses and thus discovered that they are not white/black splits but are hiding wheaten and probably wildtype. I'm not complaining and that makes the crosses really spectacular looking and that is one reason I'm getting the Red Pyles; I'm hoping they will also produce interesting crosses.

However, one of my white pullets this year has salmon leakage on her throat under her beard, in fact she looks just like the Red Pyle females I saw this breeder show. Does this mean that I've got dominant white mixed in with my White Am line? I'm trying to get my head around the genetics involved.

Anyway I'll post pics of the chicks if any hatch (fingers crossed!).

Recessive white sometimes can be leaky. I've had the occasional onewith brown on face and upper front neck.. not sure how much it would extend as they are naked necks, lol... btw mine are on black and eb (patridge/dark brown).

Those are not red pyles though, as it is specifically dominant white on wild type.

Not sure if it;s possible but that is an interesting thought, breeding for birds with pyle looks using recessive white instead of dominant white. Nobody has done that as far as I know.

btw for the first time in my experience there's a recessive white hen(both of her parents were solid black) with random black markings on random feathers. If I had not bred her, would have assumed her to be a leaky dominant white.. the black markings are not stable, they change pattern and show on different feathers between molt. I don't know what to make of that as I have not heard or seen of other examples like this.

Now back to your birds- the results are very clear in crosses between a white and a colored bird without dominant white. If a white crossed with say a black, produces blacks it is a recessive white. If they produce whites it is dominant white(need to keep in mind the possibility the cross bird is a recessive white carrier...)

If that pullet was from parents without white, she is recessive white and she simply happens to be one of the few RW that leak color.

Dominant white and recessive white are not alleles, which means they are different genes on different chromosome locations, so there is nothing to stop a bird from being both dominant white and recessive white. In fact it's not so rare to find recessive white in dominant white lines as it helps crispen the white coloring...

Recessive white can pop up from colored birds, dominant white never can do this. Sometimes people get surprised by crossing say a red sex link with a black chicken and get mostly white chicks.. that is not a surprise pop up as the rsl shows dominant white on their tails and necks..

There's an exception though.. some solid buff chickens have dominant white. It's used to cover up any little black flecks the bird might have- white is less visible than black flecks. A perfectly solid buff chicken is one of the hardest things to accomplish as the genetics are so complicated. It can also soften the buff coloring some.

 

[n8ivetxn]

Wow, this is an awesome thread.... I'm purchasing some araucana chicks. I really like the red pyles (and creles too!), but I don't want to go outside the breed to get the project started. I'm not real familiar with chicken genetics, but this thread has helped immensely.

I've bought 2 very nice groups of BBR chicks, some straight run and 2 pullets. I also have a cockerel (dirty blue or F1 red pyle?) coming to me,



I have pics of his parents, but I don't know what I'd call any of them.... the parents look like a red paint (?) hen and a rooster that looks like an F1 BBRxWhite , or a dirty blue (- he has blue/black leakage).

If I cross my dirty red pyle roo with the nice BBR pullets, would it clean up the red pyle?


Now, I need to find somebody with some barred Araucanas for the crele!

 

[n8ivetxn]

Here are the parents of the cockerel pictured above...




Now, looking at that first cockerel (yes, he's not perfect)....and these two birds he came from, if I bred him to a BBR pullet, would I get anything close to a red pyle?

 

[Kev]

The rooster and cockerel do not have dominant white, which is required for a pyle project. They are both from very mixed color and pattern breeding involving Silver. Silver is what makes the rooster and cockerel black and white like that.. For example, red duckwing and silver duckwing are the same except the latter has Silver. However both males have other genes which changes their pattern from a "clean" duckwing pattern.

The hen is much harder to tell from that picture if she has dominant white or not. She is not a clean duckwing, might not even be a duckwing either.. very occasionally a recessive white can leak some color so I am not sure if it's that or something else is going on, like maybe splash(pure blue- the rooster kinda looks he might have blue? or some kind of dilutor? hard to tell as his pattern is pretty wild)

 

[n8ivetxn]

Thanks Kev, I appreciate the input -

I went back and looked at the emails from this particular seller. She says the hen came out of a pen of whites and the daddy roo was out of a pen of blues.... She got her hatching eggs from a known breeder that does have duckwing pens, if that matters

. For the most part, Araucanas are supposed to have willow legs, except white birds. This guy has yellow legs, I guess from the white genes in his background.

Depending on how many cockerels/pullets I get, and what color varieties, I may just use him for experimental breeding and see what I get.....

If I were to look at a white araucana, how could I tell if it was dominant white or recessive white?


There's a breeder in Phelan that I've been talking to, he has some gorgeous birds, sent me a pic of a partridge hen

.... he can't ship, but we're trying hard to find a way for me to get those birds!

 

[magdelaine]

Thanks Kev, I appreciate the input -

I went back and looked at the emails from this particular seller. She says the hen came out of a pen of whites and the daddy roo was out of a pen of blues.... She got her hatching eggs from a known breeder that does have duckwing pens, if that matters

. For the most part, Araucanas are supposed to have willow legs, except white birds. This guy has yellow legs, I guess from the white genes in his background.

Depending on how many cockerels/pullets I get, and what color varieties, I may just use him for experimental breeding and see what I get.....

If I were to look at a white araucana, how could I tell if it was dominant white or recessive white?


There's a breeder in Phelan that I've been talking to, he has some gorgeous birds, sent me a pic of a partridge hen

.... he can't ship, but we're trying hard to find a way for me to get those birds!

Re: dominant vs. recessive white; you can tell for sure by breeding and hatching out chicks. Dominant white x colored bird will result in mostly white with leakage (like the hen you pictured). Recessive white x colored bird will result in all colored chicks (as long as colored bird is not "split" for recessive white). However some knowledge of the color in the breed is helpful. It seems to me that recessive white is much more common in certain breeds, like araucana and ameraucana, than dominant white because of the way the white was developed.

Phelan is only two hours from me...are you tracking down araucana or ameraucana from this breeder? I wonder if I'm familiar with him. If you were looking for Ameraucana I'd say look for Jean Ribbeck; she's up near you. She only breeds certain colors though.