Breeding Hambars/Hampbars

[catdaddyfro]

Quote:
Yeah I can relate too, on this matter. Its the same also in the Delawares, goes back to the barring being sex-linked the reason the males have/supposed to have PRONOUNCED barring in the tail and hackles and the hen has black tail feathers edged in white and the neck is supposed to be lightly barred/ stippled. In the meantime a lot(females) have the undesireable columbian striping and some still insist on using these striped hackled females for breeders and black tailed males also. How in the world would you ever not keep from getting such if you keep introducing it back into the gene pool. Its beyond my comprehension IDK. Now back to Hambars and off the Dellies for now.

Relative though I thought

Jeff

 

[Chris09]

To hit on Barring.
The gene that makes good clean barring on any Barred bird is the slow Feathering Gene (K), the Barring gene is just a on off switch.

Barring Gene: B
Barring is a Sex-link gene that stops and starts pigment production as in feather growth to give the well-known barring pattern as seen on Barred Rocks. The extremely narrow and sharp barring seen on the Barred Plymouth Rocks is achieved by the presence of the gene ('K') for very slow feathering growth, which allows for a lot of on/off sequences in the time it takes for a feather to grow. The same barring gene ('B') when on a rapid feathering breed gives wide, coarse, fuzzy "Cuckoo Barring" as seen on Cuckoo Marans, Cochins and others. The barring gene also interacts with the gene on the E locus, all of the above examples being based on the E plus melantoics. Thus all these barring and cuckoo breeds would be self-black if they did not have the barring gene. This gene has greater pigment-restricting effect on black pigment than it does on red or gold pigment. When the barring gene is applied to the Wild Type pattern, the Crele variety is produced; and the barring on Columbian pattern combination is seen on Rhodebars, one of the autosexing breeds.

Now to hit on the Rodebar and Hampbar color.
If you want good, dark "Crele" pattern/color you are going to have to breed them like a Crele but in doing so you may loose the Auto-sex part of the breed.
When breeding Crele Old English for nice dark, clean color you breed Crele to Black Breasted Red or in the case of the Rodebar and Hampbar you would breed Crele to Partridge (Brown).
By breeding Crele to Crele you are in fact slowly breeding out the Gold and making a vary faded color.


Chris

 

[rc50]

I disagree with all that... one you do not need to breed in anything buy New Hampshire if you are breeding Hambars.... to add new blood you breed a Hambar ROO to a New Hampshire Red Hen.. keep the females... eat the males...
I have had New Hampshires with different shades... The main thing to REMEMBER is the Autosexing breeds were created so one could sex them at hatch.... In Britain they have a Standard for Rhodebars for Me i will go with that ... I will go with the ideas and breeding that Mr R.C Punnett and Michael Peace of the Cambridge Agricultural research department used so long ago.....

it's not brain surgery....

Keith
SC

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
Whey do you disagree with the barring information that I posted? I know a lot of breeders of exhibition Barred Rocks that agree with every word that I posted there on Barring.

As for Crele, the below information is from the book Old English Game Bantams as Bred and Shown in the United States. (

1995)

Catlin (1991) describes how he made his own strain of Creles by crossing two Crele males with two unrelated Black Breasted Red females. From the mating all the sons were dark
(intermediate) Creles and all the daughters pure Creles. By crossing first generation males and females he extracted some pure Crele males to go with the pure Crele females already obtained.

Wolf (1991):
SIRE.....................DAM..................SONS.............................................DAUGHTERS
Crele....................Crele............100% Crele.......................................100% Crele
Crele....................B.B. Red......100% Intermediate...........................100% Crele
Intermediate.......Crele...........50% Crele & 50% Intermediate.........50% Crele & 50% B.B. Red
Intermediate.......B.B. Red......50% Intermediate & 50% B.B. Red....50% Crele & 50% B.B. Red
B.B. Red..............Crele............100% Intermediate...........................100% B.B. Red

Intermediate
In genetic term an "intermediate" male is heterozygous for barring (Bb). Females carry but one sex chromosome so a B- female would be called hemizygous; a BB (Black Breasted) male would be homozygous for barring.

Intermediate Crele OEGB (not my bird) --

"Common" Crele OEGB [non-intermediate] (not my bird)

Chris

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
I know the reason for the Auto-sexing breeds I also know that Britain has a standard for the Rhodebar/Redbar but I have yet seen one in the U.S. that meets that standard. Not one has the Rhode Island Red type like they should.

Chris

 

[Cheapchicksfarm]

I just found pictures of the Hampbars today I had never heard of them before they are beautiful birds
I raise New Hampshire's they are hatchery stock from 3 different hatchery's since that is all I can find, The breed club is useless! I have been working on improving type color etc in them I was considering selling out of my new hamps since I can't find better American stock but now that I have found this thread I think I might keep them and try to find a few barred rock pullets to make hampbars

I can get my hands on a German Cockerel would I be better off using him to make the hampbars then my hatchery NH roos? what would the advantages be?
Will my NH hens ever be needed in the creation of the Hampbars?

 

[rc50]

The short and long answer to your question is simple to me... are you happy with the your New Hampshires? No bird is perfect.... and the breeder is always looking to improve what he has... I try to breed to what I see the standard is for me... There is NO standard that I have found for Hampbars or Hambars so what I do is use the Rhodebar standard that they have in Britain with the understanding that Hampbars ( I use this term for them simply because at UBC where they were created used it... http://landfood.ubc.ca/department-poultry-science ) are lighter in color and I think the males should be a burnt orange,,, I think this helps with autosexing.... So i use a combined breeding standard for my Hampbars ... that is I use the New Hampshire standard and look to the Rhodebar standard too... these breeds were created to do a job... to lay eggs and leave a body that would be meaty... I breed for egg laying too that is almost my number one thing... but I think they are beautiful too... the males my male is number one... but you have to remember that the females carry just one gene for barring and are more like the New Hampshire... and you have to look for the barring... I hope this has helped....

Keith
SC
USA
http://www.hpbaa.com/Hampbars.html

 

[cjwaldon]

Keith, do you sell hatching eggs from your Hambars? I started a Rhodebar project, still at the very early stages, almost ready for my second cross (RIR/BR roo over RIR hens). I have some German New Hampshire eggs cooking now to throw in the mix, or most likely detour altogether since I like the looks of the NHs better than the RIRs. It's nice to get some feedback that's it's ok to do what makes you happy. Thank you. Still interested in eggs . . .

 

[rc50]

Hi hope you are doing great.. yes I do sell eggs.... and my male is doing his job... last I set 13 of 15 hatched...


have a great one

Keith
SC
USA

 

[cjwaldon]

PMing you.