Breeding with the duckwing pattern

[Trish1974]

Sorry Sneebsey I think for the first time I'm going to have to disagree.
By the book black is the right answer but I crossed quite a few black Xs brown and silver leghorns.
So far out of about 25 pullets they all show some leakage in the hackles. A few just have maybe a dozen specks of gold or silver. Some have a very noticeable amount and one looks almost birchen with it extending into the breast area.
Unfortunately I sold every cockerel as soon as I knew they were males so no idea on final product but would imagine they would have more leakage. Probably hackles and saddle areas.
Interesting also I did same cross with barred male over duckwing females. Females are barred with hints of dull black to brownish in random areas. Assume the brownish is from gold s and dull black is from silvers.
Males look barred with hints of the duckwing pattern. From the gold crosses there's definitely a lot of golden leakage.

Do you think it is possible to use black hens to "clean up" color on offspring from a rooster with bad coloring? I have the opportunity to buy a breeding pair of silver duckwing araucanas. The only sdw pullet available does not have tufts. Two cockerels are being offered... one is near perfect except he does not have tufts. The other cockerel offered has big flowing tufts, great body type, correct leg color and a nice tight pea comb....but his color is a hot mess! So messy he almost looks mottled. Common sense is telling me to pass, but my impatient side is wondering if he could be workable with the right mates??

 

[Sneebsey]

As the tufting gene is semi-lethal, two copies causes the chick to die in she'll. With that in mind, I'd be breeding tufted to clean anyway, to ensure maximum hatchability.

A photo would be good to try and figure out his genes, but colour is the easiest thing to fix.

 

[The Moonshiner]

You have to work with what you have.
So can you get better?
Its always best to start with the best but if these were looking like they may be my only option I wouldn't be scared to use them.
When I used to show it was always said color was the easiest thing to fix. I think in a lot of cases that is true.
If you meant using black like solid black I wouldn't. Stick with duckwing to duckwing.
As stated you would benefit having the pullet without tufts.
A rooster with everything right besides pattern with nice tufts and a pullet with a good pattern and no tufts sounds like something that is workable to me.
Personally I'd do it if the price is right but breeding for pattern doesn't worry me I actually love it so I might be bias.
I think he will pass on his bad pattern to some offspring but not all. I have some experience with a silver duckwing with mottled looking spots on his breast.

 

[Trish1974]

As the tufting gene is semi-lethal, two copies causes the chick to die in she'll. With that in mind, I'd be breeding tufted to clean anyway, to ensure maximum hatchability.

A photo would be good to try and figure out his genes, but colour is the easiest thing to fix.

Here are some pics:

 

[Trish1974]

You have to work with what you have.
So can you get better?
Its always best to start with the best but if these were looking like they may be my only option I wouldn't be scared to use them.
When I used to show it was always said color was the easiest thing to fix. I think in a lot of cases that is true.
If you meant using black like solid black I wouldn't. Stick with duckwing to duckwing.
As stated you would benefit having the pullet without tufts.
A rooster with everything right besides pattern with nice tufts and a pullet with a good pattern and no tufts sounds like something that is workable to me.
Personally I'd do it if the price is right but breeding for pattern doesn't worry me I actually love it so I might be bias.
I think he will pass on his bad pattern to some offspring but not all. I have some experience with a silver duckwing with mottled looking spots on his breast.

I probably could get better if I was patient. I've been looking for almost a year now and my patience is wearing thin. Got the new coop and run, got the money, but can't find the birds. Frustrating!
I did mean using solid black, so I'm glad you cleared that up for me. Thanks for the info!

 

[Sneebsey]

He looks to be impure for any restricting genes he has, therefore some of his offspring should turn out well coloured. I notice that the pullet is dark in the breast; possibly mahogany?

It's worth working with birds with faults; it's a learning experience and you will gain knowledge as a result. Colour, as we've both said, is the easiest thing to fix; a bird with good type is worth the hassle.

 

[Trish1974]

I notice that the pullet is dark in the breast; possibly mahogany?

You are right, the pullet is very dark in the breast. Mahogany is hard to breed out, right? What are your thoughts on the pullet?

 

[Sneebsey]

I've never had the Rumpless Araucana, but she seems good with regard to shape.

Mahogany shouldn't be too difficult to breed out as it is a dominant gene, therefore if a bird has it, it shows. She appears to have something else disrupting the normally clean salmon breast of a duckwing hen, however again this is likely dominant, as are whatever restrictors the cockerel has. With this in mind, breeding for a clean duckwing is not too difficult with these birds; it's when recessives are in the mix that it becomes complex, as birds can carry those hidden. If you do choose to take them, take a look at the chicks they produce and see if they have e+ wildtype chick down, as they ought; it's the most recessive, so if they have any other e-series in the mix, it'll show in the down.

 

[Trish1974]

Since we're on the subject...
@Sneebsey or @The Moonshiner can you tell what is going on (color-wise) with my cockbird? I bought him from a lady who ordered hatching eggs from someone in Ohio. She could not remember his name. She said all the araucanas shown on his website were black, but 2 hatched out like this. I assumed he was black with a lot of leakage, but now at 1 1/2 years old I see a messy duckwing pattern. I also see a lot of gold. Do you think he is golden duckwing based? If so how hard is it to breed out reds and golds? (I'm not a fan of those colors; I'm going for silver).

 

[Sneebsey]

He is both Silver and Gold; males can be both, females, only one. If bred to a Silver hen, he will produce both Silver and Gold pullets, and Silver and Silver/Gold cockerels. By retaining Silver pullets, you will be able to use him for an infusion of genetic diversity, but it will be tricky to tell the cockerels who are pure apart from those who aren't.

ETA: Extended Black is the most dominant e-series, and a hen which possesses a second e-series may not show any leakage (though a cockerel generally always does). If such a hen were in the flock, that would explain why he came out with the leakage.