Bumble foot surgery...successful?

WyncoopFlockMom

Chirping
Oct 4, 2020
71
137
83
Northwest Arkansas
We performed bumblefoot surgery on our Roo, Pimp, on 1 November. The side and bottom have completely closed so we removed the wrapping. Pimp is doing great since being in his own pen; his feathers are growing on the back of his neck and his comb is even growing back. He even crows!! (Which y’all understand my excitement!)
Although it’s only been a day, he still limps a bit and doesn’t put his full weight on his foot. Will he always have the limp? There is still a black dot on the bottom of his foot, did we not get all of the bumble out?
I’ve included before pics, surgery of the side, and then after as of yesterday.
Just checking in with my chicken family to see your thoughts.
 

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coach723

Free Ranging
6 Years
Feb 12, 2015
6,179
10,467
611
North Florida
So first two pictures are before surgery, third is immediately post surgery, and last two are now?
Just guessing, but the middle toe and foot still appears swollen in the pictures, so you may not have gotten all of it out. The one on the top/side appears to me to be regenerating, circled below. I would do it this way first,
https://www.tillysnest.com/2015/12/non-surgical-bumblefoot-treatment.html/?spref=pi
before doing surgery again, see if it will get it out without cutting. Sometimes you have to squeeze pretty firmly to get it loose so it will pop out. If soaking isn't good enough to loosen it, then applying decolorized iodine (different than betadine - any first aid section should have it) and then wrap the foot over night, that usually softens it up pretty good.
He also could do with a nail and spur trimming. A couple of the nails are pretty long, anything that makes him klutzy at all could contribute to foot injury and bumbles.
I have a roo that had bumblefoot through out his foot, rather than a solid core it was ribbon like through the foot. Very hard to clean out. First go round took over a year and many procedures before it healed up. It also affected a toe and was swollen like your birds is. Second go round I used sugardine to draw it out and it took 3.5 months. Post #16 in this thread has pictures of my birds foot after sugardine treatments, and #8 in the same thread has a video on sugardine, if you want to try it.
Inkedroofoot1_LI.jpg
 

WyncoopFlockMom

Chirping
Oct 4, 2020
71
137
83
Northwest Arkansas
So first two pictures are before surgery, third is immediately post surgery, and last two are now?
Just guessing, but the middle toe and foot still appears swollen in the pictures, so you may not have gotten all of it out. The one on the top/side appears to me to be regenerating, circled below. I would do it this way first,
https://www.tillysnest.com/2015/12/non-surgical-bumblefoot-treatment.html/?spref=pi
before doing surgery again, see if it will get it out without cutting. Sometimes you have to squeeze pretty firmly to get it loose so it will pop out. If soaking isn't good enough to loosen it, then applying decolorized iodine (different than betadine - any first aid section should have it) and then wrap the foot over night, that usually softens it up pretty good.
He also could do with a nail and spur trimming. A couple of the nails are pretty long, anything that makes him klutzy at all could contribute to foot injury and bumbles.
I have a roo that had bumblefoot through out his foot, rather than a solid core it was ribbon like through the foot. Very hard to clean out. First go round took over a year and many procedures before it healed up. It also affected a toe and was swollen like your birds is. Second go round I used sugardine to draw it out and it took 3.5 months. Post #16 in this thread has pictures of my birds foot after sugardine treatments, and #8 in the same thread has a video on sugardine, if you want to try it.
View attachment 2427070

Myra, the first 2 pics are before surgery, 3rd pic is immediate from the side, and last 2 are as of yesterday. Im traveling today and don’t have the best WiFi on the road so will watch the video you posted.We’re out of town for 10 days so once we get back I will do a thorough examination of his foot to see how it’s doing and go through the steps you suggested.During the surgery my husband could t figure out if he got it all out,there was a lot of ribbon/stringy and we weren’t sure if that’s what a chickens foot was suppose to look like or if that was the infection.
Pimps foot still looks deformed, is that the inflammation? If it heals properly, will his toes/foot go back to normal?
I have to watch some YouTube videos on how to cut toe nails and spurs. I’ve read about a potato on the spur and twist. Not sure about that though. Do I use special toe nail clippers? Or just sharp scissors?
 

coach723

Free Ranging
6 Years
Feb 12, 2015
6,179
10,467
611
North Florida
Hard to say if his foot will be normal after it's all healed or not. I had to do a lot of tissue removal and cleaning the first go round with mine and the toe that was swollen appears to have nerve damage. He does OK with it, so I just keep an eye on him. It is no longer swollen, it just doesn't really work as it should, he does not grip with it. It just depends on how much damage is done to the foot over all. That is part of the reason I went with the sugardine for his second bout, I did not want any more tissue to be lost or more damage to be done. If it had not been effective then I was prepared to euthanize if necessary rather than put him through more painful procedures.
I use dog clippers for both nails and spurs (I have large ones since I've always had large dogs). I use those for both the nails and spurs, I just blunt the spurs and keep them from growing out too far and from curling. Your roo has white nails, so you should be able to clearly see the quick and not cut too short. If in doubt, cut a small amount each time, and repeat until you are where you want to be. The core of the spur can extend out quite a ways sometimes. If you use the potato method then you will have shorter spurs, they will still be quite sharp. So I just cut off 1/4" to 1/2" so they are blunt. I do it regularly so they don't get too long. You may need to do a bit now, and then in a few weeks repeat. I would take a small amount at a time, that way you won't cut badly into the core and cause a lot of bleeding. If you accidentally cut too short then blood stop powder or corn starch can help stop the bleeding. The clippers I use look something like these, some use a dremmel tool (pretty sure the noise would make that a no go for my roo):
DogNailClippers.jpg
 

WyncoopFlockMom

Chirping
Oct 4, 2020
71
137
83
Northwest Arkansas
Hard to say if his foot will be normal after it's all healed or not. I had to do a lot of tissue removal and cleaning the first go round with mine and the toe that was swollen appears to have nerve damage. He does OK with it, so I just keep an eye on him. It is no longer swollen, it just doesn't really work as it should, he does not grip with it. It just depends on how much damage is done to the foot over all. That is part of the reason I went with the sugardine for his second bout, I did not want any more tissue to be lost or more damage to be done. If it had not been effective then I was prepared to euthanize if necessary rather than put him through more painful procedures.
I use dog clippers for both nails and spurs (I have large ones since I've always had large dogs). I use those for both the nails and spurs, I just blunt the spurs and keep them from growing out too far and from curling. Your roo has white nails, so you should be able to clearly see the quick and not cut too short. If in doubt, cut a small amount each time, and repeat until you are where you want to be. The core of the spur can extend out quite a ways sometimes. If you use the potato method then you will have shorter spurs, they will still be quite sharp. So I just cut off 1/4" to 1/2" so they are blunt. I do it regularly so they don't get too long. You may need to do a bit now, and then in a few weeks repeat. I would take a small amount at a time, that way you won't cut badly into the core and cause a lot of bleeding. If you accidentally cut too short then blood stop powder or corn starch can help stop the bleeding. The clippers I use look something like these, some use a dremmel tool (pretty sure the noise would make that a no go for my roo):
View attachment 2427255
I looked for the picture of your Roo’s foot and the video of the sugardine and couldn’t find them. I did go down a rabbit hole on the tilliesnest website and read a bunch of articles. :lol: I’m interested in the sugardine method because I would rather not do another surgery. As for the black part on the bottom of his foot...do I soak and squeeze that part also? Can you share the picture and video here?
Since the first surgery, Pimp has made about an 85% recovery overall. He uses his foot a ton more, placing light pressure on his foot, has gained weight, his feathers and comb are growing back, he is such a chatter box now, even crowing in the morning! Just want to make sure we get all of the bumble out so he can live a happy and pain free life.
I will pick up a pair of large dog nail clippers to start the trimming process. I’m sure the whole flock needs to be done. I originally thought they filed the nails down with their scratching. But makes sense to clip his toe nails since he can’t scratch.
As for the Spurs, I’ve read about the potato method but haven’t worked up the courage to try to do it. I usually do the holding and my husband does the work (our chickens weren’t comfortable with us when we first got them and handling them was a 2 person task) so we shall see how the trimming process goes. We have another Roo that manages our 6 hens that I haven’t been able to pick up yet, but his spurs are getting quite long. That may require more helping hands to accomplish.
 

coach723

Free Ranging
6 Years
Feb 12, 2015
6,179
10,467
611
North Florida
Jeez, I'm so sorry, I neglected to put the link to the thread in my answer. :he:oops:
Here is the link:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...e-major-swelling.1419956/page-2#post-23466292
Yes, I would also do the lesion on the bottom of the foot. It's possible both are linked inside the foot, sometimes it tunnels through the tissue. I've had that happen and when flushing it out, the flush goes in one side and exits the other. Bad as that sounds, it sometimes makes it easier to get it cleaned out well. Either way, once cleaned out, pack it with sugar, add a few drops of betadine (it will wick in, doesn't take much) and bandage it up well. I found it easier to pack the wound with dry sugar and then add the betadine, but you can mix it up first if that works better for you, video below. Link above also explains how I bandage and how often I changed it. It still takes time to heal. I did this daily until no pus was being regenerated overnight. Then slowly spaced it out to every other day and then every third day, just depending on how it was doing. If it got bad I did it more often. The picture below was about 3 and 1/2 months after starting sugardine treatments. This was a very large, very deep lesion (sorry, I don't have a 'before' picture).
For trimming spurs and nails, if you take them off the roosts after dark they will be calmer. Wrap them in a towel like a burrito to help hold the wings, covering the face with a cloth sometimes also helps calm them (make sure they can breathe). Laying them on their back also tends to help calm them. That is how I do the ones that dislike being held or are hard to catch.
Here is my picture of the healing foot, details/description in the link above:
RooFoot1.jpg

This is the sugardine video from the other thread:
 

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