California - Northern

[PetRock]

Hi - I've noticed most owners have space to have several birds of the same breed within the flock which makes it nice for the same breeds to "hang out" together. I would love to have 3 or more birds of each breed but I now live in a small cottage with a small yard and zoned for 5 hens only. It makes choosing breeds that get along without a same-breed companion in the flock a bit more challenging for us. We've given up on dark egg layers because we haven't found the owner feedback on them very encouraging as far as mixing their large heavyweight bodies with gentle under-5-lb flockmates. Our 7-lb Marans aggressively and viciously took advantage of the 2-lb Silkies. Even our Leghorns eventually went bonkers on their flockmates too.

Wellies feedback to me is that they were a bit aloof toward humans and usually somewhere in the middle of the pecking order. I worried these 6-lb hens as the largest hen in the flock would take advantage of the gentle 2-lb Silkies just because they could get away with it. Barnies are reportedly calm birds but a 7 to 8-lb bird around smaller gentles could be tempted to lord it over them too - it seems to be a chicken thing! I won't consider Penes/Emps around Silkies because the Mediterranean types can be a bit aloof with humans and like Leghorns be assertive toward smaller breeds. I love all these breeds but have to face limitations in my backyard choices.

Yes, I have been reading some very nice things about the Pita Pintas. Do you know their breed history?

Here is the link for the Spanish Pita Pinta Association. http://www.lapitapintaasturiana.com/la-pita-pinta-asturiana

And a PDF article http://www.aviculture-europe.nl/nummers/07E04A04.pdf

 

[caychris]

The breed of chickens does not necessarily tell you what the temperment will be. Different strains behave differently, even when they are the same breed.

Walt

This is true
Chickens have their own personalities too I have 1 Pita boy from a hatch of 7 chicks that is very bitey while another I just a love and will even snuggle up in the lap with my daughter. While most of the birds are friendly and gentle every so often one will get peevish.

In general I have found Pitas to be very friendly birds gentle and generally quiet. You can get the off bad or nutty bird but in general they are ideally suited to backyard flocks and generally mix well with other birds.

I have a mix of buff orps, Pitas, Delawares and Cream Legbars the Cream legbars are the most "wild" of my birds but due to their smaller size not very combative.
Im loving my Pita boys as they are very good with the hens. Cream Legbar males are a noisy lot though.If I were to recommend a breed for the back yard it would have to be Pitas but its a toss up between my buff orps and my pitas which are sweeter.

 

[Happy Chooks]

The breed of chickens does not necessarily tell you what the temperment will be. Different strains behave differently, even when they are the same breed.

Walt

Agreed! I would think it also depends on the breeders choices. I've never bred a mean make, but common sense would say that if you breed mean birds, you will get mean offspring in general.

 

[Sylvester017]

@Sylvester017
I have a mixed flock with several wyndottes and the two different colors tend to stick together. But for me it seems more about age and space, different sets of purchace or hatches spread out although all 26 or so free range share under the porch on hot days with no qualms.
Attimus

I had to chuckle when I read this about a flock having no qualms sharing a shelter on a hot or even a rainy day - so true! And wish I could have 20+ chickens but alas we are zoned for only 5. I agree about the age and space theory of how birds relate to each other. Our Silkies are the oldest hens in the yard and usually command leadership - EXCEPT when we added heavy Marans and assertive Leghorns who eventually usurped the littles' status and started picking on them so we had to re-home the bully breeds and added instead a sweet Ameraucana and gentle Breda with the Silkies. The Silkies are back to being the leaders and the two gentle larger fowl are submissive to them. I didn't consider the Wyans because I got about a 50/50 split feedback on their temperaments from actual owners and MyPetChicken listed Wyans as calm but with a tendency toward dominance so I passed for the moment. I'm glad our small Silkies are in the lead again - they intimidate the LF but don't do harm to them. The Ameraucana has been submissive for 2 yrs now so we don't anticipate animosity from her.

I too had bad luck with Marans, they were mean as heck, and I got rid of them. Then I got some from Wynette's stock here on BYC, and they are nice birds. Very broody, but nice.

My Welsummers are friendly birds. They are not lap chickens, and would prefer to not be picked up but they run to me for treats. They are very loud with their egg song though if that is a concern.

My Barnevelders are laid back, mellow birds - they have the best temperament in my opinion. Barnevelders go broody (4 of mine went broody this summer) and Welsummers generally do not.

Marans are a strange breed and their temperament is all over the page. Not like Mediterranean breeds where you know by maturity most Meds will avoid human contact except for food and will become assertive eventually toward non-combative gentles - I've never had a Med Leghorn disappoint me regarding the consistency of their temperament. But Marans are a bit more unpredictable. The one Cuckoo Marans we had came to us as a calm submissive pullet and at about 18 months she turned into a regular Jekyll/Hyde - sweet in front of humans but a holy terror on her flockmates. Our friends had BCMs and an OE that was derivative from a Cuckoo - friends kept the sweet OE which must have inherited the sweet Ameraucana parent's temperament but the pure BCMs who were not very nice to flockmates were found new homes. We concluded the dark layers were best kept in their own breed flock or with other dual purpose breeds to keep their bullying tendencies in check. A roo in the flock helps keep peace but we aren't zoned for roos.

Wellies have a Leghorn breed history among many other cross-breeds and they were a dark layer I considered. But because of their Leg history it kinda makes them skittery and avoid human contact whereas our Silkies and Breda will come up to us to actually pet or pick them up which makes it easy on us for their health inspections.

I'm getting nice owner feedbacks on Barnies except they would be gigantic birds next to our 4-lb Breda or 2-lb Silkies and it's a chicken thing for the gentle giants to be tempted to lord it over littles just because they can. My DH won't have a flock without Silkies so it limits our LF additions.

The breed of chickens does not necessarily tell you what the temperment will be. Different strains behave differently, even when they are the same breed.

Walt

I tried to take this advice to heart about "different" strains but there are just some breeds that are consistent in temperament no matter who breeds them. The Mediterraneans don't disappoint in this regard - for instance, they avoid human contact except for food and at maturity will become assertive with flockmates. Leghorns can actually become quite cannibalistic in their haranging of flockmates. We had to re-home our Legs because their temperaments became true to their nature. That's not to say they wouldn't jump onto your arm or into your lap for treats but it was not a behavior they exhibited to be "pet" friendly. We had a White production Leg who amazingly was a non-aggressive alpha leader for 3 years and then true to nature finally went bonkers on her flockmates. A Buff Leg was sweet as a pullet and then at 1-yr-old proceeded to display and escalate her Leg nature of cannibalizing the combs, crests, muffs, and beards of the other breeds that wouldn't retaliate because of their gentle nature or smaller size. As wonderful as chickens can be it is amazing to me how cruel they can be to each other.

Yes, temperaments can vary from chicken to chicken from breed to breed but some things are consistent within a breed no matter how many times you work to breed something out of them. There is wisdom in heeding the general temperament reports on various breeds. For instance, I would never mix a Yamato with Silkies or Malays with RIRs because the nature of those breeds is quite well known enough that prudence tells you not to mix them. Perhaps the subtlety of mixing 2-lb Silkies with 4.5-lb Leghorns escapes most owners but we definitely saw the detriment of mixing those two temperaments in the same flock.

Here is the link for the Spanish Pita Pinta Association. http://www.lapitapintaasturiana.com/la-pita-pinta-asturiana

And a PDF article http://www.aviculture-europe.nl/nummers/07E04A04.pdf

Yes, I have read these sites when I started to see Pitas emerging in backyards. As nice as these writeups are it is beneficial to get an owners personal experience and evaluation of the breed. Thank you so much.

This is true
Chickens have their own personalities too I have 1 Pita boy from a hatch of 7 chicks that is very bitey while another I just a love and will even snuggle up in the lap with my daughter. While most of the birds are friendly and gentle every so often one will get peevish.

In general I have found Pitas to be very friendly birds gentle and generally quiet. You can get the off bad or nutty bird but in general they are ideally suited to backyard flocks and generally mix well with other birds.

I have a mix of buff orps, Pitas, Delawares and Cream Legbars the Cream legbars are the most "wild" of my birds but due to their smaller size not very combative.
Im loving my Pita boys as they are very good with the hens. Cream Legbar males are a noisy lot though.If I were to recommend a breed for the back yard it would have to be Pitas but its a toss up between my buff orps and my pitas which are sweeter.

I have read your posts about the Pitas and it is significant information to me because of your comparison of them in relation to the many other breeds you are fortunate to have. Yes, individual birds within the same breed can display different temperaments but as a whole breed you have classified them generally as friendly gentle quiet birds in a mixed flock environment - so have other owners. There's always truth to breed temperaments from consistent owner feedbacks.

We had friends that had a bossy Orp so we passed on getting the heavy dual purpose bird for our yard. Owners seem to like their Orps for calmness and production but with my luck like our friends we'd get the one oddball heavy Orp who turns bully. A Delaware owner said their LF Dels were great at production but could get mean while a Delaware bantam owner had favourable reports about the temperaments and production of their Del banties.

CLs have the Leg breed history so therefore will have the more skittery temperaments and of course Legs are very vocal and not the ideal bird for a tiny yard like ours. Our Ameraucana does not do well in our humid SoCalif climate so her egg production sucks - I was considering a CL for blue eggs but I have not had the best experience with Leg breeds - assertive & noisy. Owners love their blue eggs but it's one luxury that eluded me with our heat-intolerant Amer girl. EEs and Russ Orloffs are also bearded muffed pea combed birds that seem to prefer cooler climates. Our friends' Amer and EEs down the street have slowed or stopped laying their 2nd year too. The way it's looking for me is that I'll never have blue eggs in my flock.

 

[fowlman01]

I had to chuckle when I read this about a flock having no qualms sharing a shelter on a hot or even a rainy day - so true! And wish I could have 20+ chickens but alas we are zoned for only 5. I agree about the age and space theory of how birds relate to each other. Our Silkies are the oldest hens in the yard and usually command leadership - EXCEPT when we added heavy Marans and assertive Leghorns who eventually usurped the littles' status and started picking on them so we had to re-home the bully breeds and added instead a sweet Ameraucana and gentle Breda with the Silkies. The Silkies are back to being the leaders and the two gentle larger fowl are submissive to them. I didn't consider the Wyans because I got about a 50/50 split feedback on their temperaments from actual owners and MyPetChicken listed Wyans as calm but with a tendency toward dominance so I passed for the moment. I'm glad our small Silkies are in the lead again - they intimidate the LF but don't do harm to them. The Ameraucana has been submissive for 2 yrs now so we don't anticipate animosity from her.

Marans are a strange breed and their temperament is all over the page. Not like Mediterranean breeds where you know by maturity most Meds will avoid human contact except for food and will become assertive eventually toward non-combative gentles - I've never had a Med Leghorn disappoint me regarding the consistency of their temperament. But Marans are a bit more unpredictable. The one Cuckoo Marans we had came to us as a calm submissive pullet and at about 18 months she turned into a regular Jekyll/Hyde - sweet in front of humans but a holy terror on her flockmates. Our friends had BCMs and an OE that was derivative from a Cuckoo - friends kept the sweet OE which must have inherited the sweet Ameraucana parent's temperament but the pure BCMs who were not very nice to flockmates were found new homes. We concluded the dark layers were best kept in their own breed flock or with other dual purpose breeds to keep their bullying tendencies in check. A roo in the flock helps keep peace but we aren't zoned for roos.

Wellies have a Leghorn breed history among many other cross-breeds and they were a dark layer I considered. But because of their Leg history it kinda makes them skittery and avoid human contact whereas our Silkies and Breda will come up to us to actually pet or pick them up which makes it easy on us for their health inspections.

I'm getting nice owner feedbacks on Barnies except they would be gigantic birds next to our 4-lb Breda or 2-lb Silkies and it's a chicken thing for the gentle giants to be tempted to lord it over littles just because they can. My DH won't have a flock without Silkies so it limits our LF additions.

I tried to take this advice to heart about "different" strains but there are just some breeds that are consistent in temperament no matter who breeds them. The Mediterraneans don't disappoint in this regard - for instance, they avoid human contact except for food and at maturity will become assertive with flockmates. Leghorns can actually become quite cannibalistic in their haranging of flockmates. We had to re-home our Legs because their temperaments became true to their nature. That's not to say they wouldn't jump onto your arm or into your lap for treats but it was not a behavior they exhibited to be "pet" friendly. We had a White production Leg who amazingly was a non-aggressive alpha leader for 3 years and then true to nature finally went bonkers on her flockmates. A Buff Leg was sweet as a pullet and then at 1-yr-old proceeded to display and escalate her Leg nature of cannibalizing the combs, crests, muffs, and beards of the other breeds that wouldn't retaliate because of their gentle nature or smaller size. As wonderful as chickens can be it is amazing to me how cruel they can be to each other.

Yes, temperaments can vary from chicken to chicken from breed to breed but some things are consistent within a breed no matter how many times you work to breed something out of them. There is wisdom in heeding the general temperament reports on various breeds. For instance, I would never mix a Yamato with Silkies or Malays with RIRs because the nature of those breeds is quite well known enough that prudence tells you not to mix them. Perhaps the subtlety of mixing 2-lb Silkies with 4.5-lb Leghorns escapes most owners but we definitely saw the detriment of mixing those two temperaments in the same flock.

Yes, I have read these sites when I started to see Pitas emerging in backyards. As nice as these writeups are it is beneficial to get an owners personal experience and evaluation of the breed. Thank you so much.

I have read your posts about the Pitas and it is significant information to me because of your comparison of them in relation to the many other breeds you are fortunate to have. Yes, individual birds within the same breed can display different temperaments but as a whole breed you have classified them generally as friendly gentle quiet birds in a mixed flock environment - so have other owners. There's always truth to breed temperaments from consistent owner feedbacks.

We had friends that had a bossy Orp so we passed on getting the heavy dual purpose bird for our yard. Owners seem to like their Orps for calmness and production but with my luck like our friends we'd get the one oddball heavy Orp who turns bully. A Delaware owner said their LF Dels were great at production but could get mean while a Delaware bantam owner had favourable reports about the temperaments and production of their Del banties.

CLs have the Leg breed history so therefore will have the more skittery temperaments and of course Legs are very vocal and not the ideal bird for a tiny yard like ours. Our Ameraucana does not do well in our humid SoCalif climate so her egg production sucks - I was considering a CL for blue eggs but I have not had the best experience with Leg breeds - assertive & noisy. Owners love their blue eggs but it's one luxury that eluded me with our heat-intolerant Amer girl. EEs and Russ Orloffs are also bearded muffed pea combed birds that seem to prefer cooler climates. Our friends' Amer and EEs down the street have slowed or stopped laying their 2nd year too. The way it's looking for me is that I'll never have blue eggs in my flock.

We each have to go by what we have experienced and my experience with Leghorns is extensive. I lived on my uncles fryer farm and we had 40,000 Leghorns there. In those days they used leghorn males for frying chickens. They were obviously larger than hatchery Leghorns . they were the same type as people show now. They are big and they were all males. Zero problems with mean males. I have raised Leghorns in large fowl and bantam for over 30 years with many thousand leghorn males. Zero mean males. I don't know where you got your stock but they gave Leghorns a bad name.

Walt

 

[Sylvester017]

We each have to go by what we have experienced and my experience with Leghorns is extensive. I lived on my uncles fryer farm and we had 40,000 Leghorns there. In those days they used leghorn males for frying chickens. They were obviously larger than hatchery Leghorns . they were the same type as people show now. They are big and they were all males. Zero problems with mean males. I have raised Leghorns in large fowl and bantam for over 30 years with many thousand leghorn males. Zero mean males. I don't know where you got your stock but they gave Leghorns a bad name.

Walt

Hi Walt - I understand your concern: My folks and uncle raised Babcock Legs six decades ago and I have always loved Legs for many reasons. My uncle lost 1,000 hens on one heatwave day and Campbell's Soup came around all our ranches/farms trying to buy up the dead carcasses - I never ate canned chicken soups ever again! Even today I have a difficult time eating chicken period. Chalk it up to being sensitive as a kid on on my part. On our farm we had a smaller flock of 50 Babcock hens, no roos, and it was easy keeping them in a pen next to the ducks and geese. There was plenty of space for various livestock on 25 acres. I had such fond memories of those days that Leghorns was an easy choice in retirement to add to our tiny backyard flock. But I failed to remember how close quarters turned Leghorns easily into cannibalistic birds. My uncle did not give his Legs open spaces and there were some gruesome moments but that was the way the egg industry was in the dark ages.

Our White Leg was okay in our current little yard with 2 Silkies but we mistakenly added a Marans pullet that eventually outweighed the whole flock and she got nasty. We were proud of the White Leg for putting the Marans in her place but the Marans nastiness continued so she was re-homed. We added an Ameraucana to replace the Marans and the Amer is a peaceful breed and to this day has never been combative. To keep eggs coming we added a Buff Leghorn a year later. All our breeds are from private breeders and not hatcheries. In fact our Buff was hatched from Dan Honour birds which our breeder had obtained from Dan directly - a very kind and knowledgeable man about Legs and Buffs. We were so appreciative of his kindness that we named the Buff hen "Danni" in respect.

With the zoned 5 hens in our little yard we started having problems with the two Leghorns. First the White Leg decided to get overly assertive and her meanness was contagious in the flock so we re-homed her successfully into our friend's Leg flock. Now we were down to 4 hens and one year later the Buff Leg behaved worse than the White Leg by chasing and cannibalizing the gentle breeds' combs, beards, crests, and muffs and she was getting away with this dominant behavior because the gentles were not retaliating. When we re-homed her into the friend's Leg flock she had no more easy targets to bully. I hated to give up our Leg layers but they were not good in our tiny yard. Legs love their free-range freedom and our little yard just didn't work - the Legs had access lording it over gentle breeds who didn't have much area to really keep out of the way. I understand Leg bantams are pretty good layers and somewhat mellower than the LF Legs but when I was looking for them Mr. Honour hadn't perfected his small stock enough to part with any birds at the time. Now we're in peace with 2 Silkies, a Breda, and Ameraucana and won't be adding another breed for a couple years, if at all. My DH doesn't want to be without Silkies in a flock so we will continue to be limited in the LF breeds we can add. For two of us we are comfortable with the supply of eggs we currently collect.

 

[caychris]

Hi Walt - I understand your concern: My folks and uncle raised Babcock Legs six decades ago and I have always loved Legs for many reasons. My uncle lost 1,000 hens on one heatwave day and Campbell's Soup came around all our ranches/farms trying to buy up the dead carcasses - I never ate canned chicken soups ever again! Even today I have a difficult time eating chicken period. Chalk it up to being sensitive as a kid on on my part. On our farm we had a smaller flock of 50 Babcock hens, no roos, and it was easy keeping them in a pen next to the ducks and geese. There was plenty of space for various livestock on 25 acres. I had such fond memories of those days that Leghorns was an easy choice in retirement to add to our tiny backyard flock. But I failed to remember how close quarters turned Leghorns easily into cannibalistic birds. My uncle did not give his Legs open spaces and there were some gruesome moments but that was the way the egg industry was in the dark ages.

Our White Leg was okay in our current little yard with 2 Silkies but we mistakenly added a Marans pullet that eventually outweighed the whole flock and she got nasty. We were proud of the White Leg for putting the Marans in her place but the Marans nastiness continued so she was re-homed. We added an Ameraucana to replace the Marans and the Amer is a peaceful breed and to this day has never been combative. To keep eggs coming we added a Buff Leghorn a year later. All our breeds are from private breeders and not hatcheries. In fact our Buff was hatched from Dan Honour birds which our breeder had obtained from Dan directly - a very kind and knowledgeable man about Legs and Buffs. We were so appreciative of his kindness that we named the Buff hen "Danni" in respect.

With the zoned 5 hens in our little yard we started having problems with the two Leghorns. First the White Leg decided to get overly assertive and her meanness was contagious in the flock so we re-homed her successfully into our friend's Leg flock. Now we were down to 4 hens and one year later the Buff Leg behaved worse than the White Leg by chasing and cannibalizing the gentle breeds' combs, beards, crests, and muffs and she was getting away with this dominant behavior because the gentles were not retaliating. When we re-homed her into the friend's Leg flock she had no more easy targets to bully. I hated to give up our Leg layers but they were not good in our tiny yard. Legs love their free-range freedom and our little yard just didn't work - the Legs had access lording it over gentle breeds who didn't have much area to really keep out of the way. I understand Leg bantams are pretty good layers and somewhat mellower than the LF Legs but when I was looking for them Mr. Honour hadn't perfected his small stock enough to part with any birds at the time. Now we're in peace with 2 Silkies, a Breda, and Ameraucana and won't be adding another breed for a couple years, if at all. My DH doesn't want to be without Silkies in a flock so we will continue to be limited in the LF breeds we can add. For two of us we are comfortable with the supply of eggs we currently collect.

I would try a Cream Legbar if I was you they seem to be aloof birds more than mean but maybe that's because of my LF birds. Yes they have Leg (Brown) in them but they also have Aracuna and I cant remember off hand where the barring comes from. Mine is assertive for herself but doesnt try to dominate other birds. Though just yesterday she went off across the wire with a young Pita Cockerel for no apparent reason. (Must have been some non verbal insult or something

every one else stood around looking perplexed)

I just reintegrated my broody buff back into her flock and added the 3 babies as well (gave them a place to hide and food if they need it) the only time the other birds seem to even notice the babies (almost 6 weeks) is when they are looking for the last bit of scratch and the baby comes in and ninja's the morsel. One of the babies was even on the roost last night, One was hugged tight to the roo and the 3rd was snuggled in with the ledge sitters.(I moved her inside on a low roost)

The male pita keeps the squabbles (such as they are) to a minimum and seems to watch over the chicks as if they were his.

Buff orps are a hit and miss proposition depending on what you want them for. Some lay great others not some are super friendly others more aloof. Ive had a couple who think its their job to put everyone in place (not really mean but watch over the order and introduce new birds to it)

 

[fowlman01]

The Leghorns used in making Legbars are not anything like Leghorns here in the US. They are a totally different looking bird. In November I will be looking at the British Legbars.

Walt

 

[Sylvester017]

I would try a Cream Legbar if I was you they seem to be aloof birds more than mean but maybe that's because of my LF birds. Yes they have Leg (Brown) in them but they also have Aracuna and I cant remember off hand where the barring comes from. Mine is assertive for herself but doesnt try to dominate other birds. Though just yesterday she went off across the wire with a young Pita Cockerel for no apparent reason. (Must have been some non verbal insult or something

every one else stood around looking perplexed)

I just reintegrated my broody buff back into her flock and added the 3 babies as well (gave them a place to hide and food if they need it) the only time the other birds seem to even notice the babies (almost 6 weeks) is when they are looking for the last bit of scratch and the baby comes in and ninja's the morsel. One of the babies was even on the roost last night, One was hugged tight to the roo and the 3rd was snuggled in with the ledge sitters.(I moved her inside on a low roost)

The male pita keeps the squabbles (such as they are) to a minimum and seems to watch over the chicks as if they were his.

Buff orps are a hit and miss proposition depending on what you want them for. Some lay great others not some are super friendly others more aloof. Ive had a couple who think its their job to put everyone in place (not really mean but watch over the order and introduce new birds to it)

I was tempted to get CLs (GFF is having a BOGO on CLs - buy one pullet get one free, buy one cockerel get two free or something like that.) But I don't want chicken math to take over and I really don't want to deal with baby chicks. I still have some time before deciding what new bird to add to the yard.

The breeds that give the Legbars, Rhodebars, etc their auto-sexing or barring is by using barred or cuckoo birds like BRs, Malines, etc.

I would love to have a roo in the yard but we aren't zoned for one. I've had a Partridge Silkie cockerel and a Breda cockerel that I had to re-home and they were both such great temperaments!!!

Yep, that's the report on Buff Orp from our friends - mean when she was a broody, and mildly bossy as an alpha hen but not at all as mean as their BCM hens.

 

[Happy Chooks]

The Leghorns used in making Legbars are not anything like Leghorns here in the US. They are a totally different looking bird. In November I will be looking at the British Legbars.

Walt

Very cool Walt!