California - Northern

[OR4-hmom]

Great info. Kathy.
Just my preference but I rely on fecal sample results for worming. Once I know what they have I can treat specifically to what they are carrying. So far I've only been told they have round worms but... As a teenager my strep throat became resistant to 5 different 'cillin drugs so I guess that slants my view.

 

[casportpony]

Quote: I do.

-Kathy

 

[ronott1]

Great info. Kathy.
Just my preference but I rely on fecal sample results for worming. Once I know what they have I can treat specifically to what they are carrying. So far I've only been told they have round worms but... As a teenager my strep throat became resistant to 5 different 'cillin drugs so I guess that slants my view.

Since it is Spring now, I need to send a sample in too.

Thanks for the reminder.

 

[casportpony]

Great info. Kathy.
Just my preference but I rely on fecal sample results for worming. Once I know what they have I can treat specifically to what they are carrying. So far I've only been told they have round worms but... As a teenager my strep throat became resistant to 5 different 'cillin drugs so I guess that slants my view.

I'm all for fecals, but I read someplace that capillary worms are had to test for because their eggs are soo small, plus it's possible to have false negatives. Let me tell you a little story... My first trip to an avian vet was with two very sick turkey poults that I suspected had blackhead. Fecal floats and smears were done in the vet office *and* at Idexx (lab), but all were negative. Both died and were necropsy results showed blackhead, e. Coli and yeast, so why didn't they find evidence of cecal worms? I guess I should have asked, lol.

Don't get me wrong, I really am pro-fecal and pro-vet and encourage others to be as well.

-Kathy

 

[CackleJoy]

Those that use ivermectin might find this interesting:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/867541/important-information-on-ivermec-warning-autopsy-photos

Add that to this:

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2816174
Ivermectin as a bird anthelmintic--trials with naturally infected domestic fowl.

Oksanen A, Nikander S.
Abstract

To evaluate the use of ivermectin as a bird anthelmintic, 29 White Leghorn hens naturally infected with Ascaridia spp., Heterakis spp. and Capillaria spp. were treated with 0.2, 2 or 6 mg/kg intramuscularly or 0.2 or 0.8 mg/kg orally. Faecal samples were collected before treatment and at autopsy, 2, 6, or 16 days after treatment, when the intestines were also examined for helminths. None of the treatments gave satisfactory anthelmintic results.

-Kathy

What does that mean in layman's terms? This word anthelmintic is so foreign

 

[casportpony]

Quote:

Abstract

To evaluate the use of ivermectin as a bird anthelmintic, 29 White Leghorn hens naturally infected with Ascaridia spp., Heterakis spp. and Capillaria spp. were treated with 0.2, 2 or 6 mg/kg intramuscularly or 0.2 or 0.8 mg/kg orally. Faecal samples were collected before treatment and at autopsy, 2, 6, or 16 days after treatment, when the intestines were also examined for helminths. None of the treatments gave satisfactory anthelmintic results.

-Kathy

What does that mean in layman's terms? This word anthelmintic is so foreign

To me it means de-worm.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anthelmintic
"expelling or destroying parasitic worms especially of the intestine"

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

This link has some good parasite info:
http://msucares.com/poultry/diseases/disparas.htm

-Kathy

 

[CackleJoy]

We've had 2 necropsies performed in the last month. Neither showed worms. Can I take that as assurance I don't need to worm the flock this season?

 

[capayvalleychick]

the more i think about this, the more i realize i have a question: right now in the chick department, i have

-- five 7-week-olds living outdoors in a pen of their own
-- six 3-week-olds in the indoor brooder, along with
-- four 1-week-olds, and
-- twelve 2-day olds.
-- and there are 17 eggs in the incubator, hatching in a little over two weeks (although who knows how many will hatch)

so far, the three age groups in the brooder have all blended together into a happy flock without any drama -- hooray for that!

but the 3-week-olds will soon be grown enough to go outside, and i wonder whether i'll be able to merge them with the 7-week-olds? or, i could keep them separate -- but by the time the littler ones are ready to join them outdoors, i'll have the same problem.

so the question is, what's the oldest you've been able to merge groups of chicks without the older/larger group rejecting the others? at least they are are sizable groups, so no risk of a single chick being picked on -- but when do the pecking orders become cemented enough that newcomers really get rougher treatment?

I have a similar situation, since I have multiple hatches over a period of months. I read about breeders who keep all their different age groups separate, but that's not possible here.
I think so much depends on the individual birds dispositions, so what works one year may not work the next. I just do the best I can.

To answer your question about what is the oldest that I've been able to merge ... I'm constantly merging groups of different ages, in and out of different pens. (This is regarding females- not males.) So, there's not a set age when it will or won't work. They seem to accept reorganization, perhaps because it happens so often. I always try to integrate with at least a pair, or more. Putting a single bird into a new group will sometimes result in that bird becoming a scapegoat.

Here's what I do: Newly hatched chicks are kept in a brooder with their hatchmates until they feather out.
I have a large coop next to my house. It opens up to my yard, with grass, trees and lots of roses for cover. When the chicks feather out, they are put in this coop. For the first week, they are kept in an enclosure in this coop, so they get used to it. After that, the coop door is opened every day and they can range the yard.
I keep integrating new batches of chicks into this coop. Keeping them enclosed the first week also serves to introduce them to the previous group(s) in a protected way. The older birds always are somewhat dominant over the younger. This isn't ideal, but it's the way it is. I watch to make sure that none are getting hurt. This hasn't been an issue. I make sure that there are multiple feeders and waterers available. The coop is large enough that they all have space. After awhile, they all seem to become one group.
When the males become sexually mature - as soon as I see chasing going on - that group of mature males are separated to a separate bachelor pen.
This is where it gets tricky. Every year, it seems to be a little different. Sometimes I can add groups of males together. Last year, I could not. Two males that had grown up together and had been buddies were separated for about a month, then reunited. Never been a problem before, but this time my best male ended up being injured so badly that he died. Lesson learned. I'll never try to reunite groups of males that have been separated.
So, the males have a pen for culls and a pen for possible breeders. I also have a cull pen for pullets/hens. The possible breeder pullets stay in the coop near the house until they are large enough not to be hawk bait. Then I move them, in pairs or groups, out to the mobile coop on pasture. The mature hens in the mobile coop might push them around a bit at first, but then they all get along. There is sometimes a single rooster with this group. Males are rotated out there in the off season. During breeding season, I'm taking hens in and out of there, so the group is always changing.

That's what works for me.

 

[casportpony]

We've had 2 necropsies performed in the last month. Neither showed worms. Can I take that as assurance I don't need to worm the flock this season?

Roundworms are really obvious during a necropsy, the others are easy to miss (at least for me they are, lol), if you're concerned, call the lab, speak to the pathologist and ask them if they look for capillary worms and cecal worms etc. I'm not positive, but I think if they open up a bird and find an obvious cause of death, like EYP, cancer ascites, they might not check all of the intestines, trachea, esophagus and crop for parasites. Like you, I've had several necropsies done and none have listed any parasites.

-Kathy