cant we get this right?????

[Cryptkeeper]

Another way to check for Square is using 3,4,5 method. measure from bottom right corner(looking from above) up 3' and mark, then from same corner measure left 4' and mark. now the distance from mark to mark should be 5' if you are square. a2xb2=c2. You can also use this for the walls or anything you want square. This method is easy to use if you are working by yourself and/or on big projects.

 

[the3ofus+oursixchicks]

thanks to all who had help for me. it is frustrating when you cant figure out ONE little pole. my hubby does know carpentry but seems like little ones are the toughest. we are planning for saturday to be the day to get it going again unless he decides to try to work with that pole tomorrow after work. will post how it goes when we get it going again.

 

[galanie]

Another way to check for Square is using 3,4,5 method. measure from bottom right corner(looking from above) up 3' and mark, then from same corner measure left 4' and mark. now the distance from mark to mark should be 5' if you are square. a2xb2=c2. You can also use this for the walls or anything you want square. This method is easy to use if you are working by yourself and/or on big projects.

You're right! I never can remember if it's 2,3,5 or 3,4,5. I feel like a moron. Yes, one side of the "triangle" is 3', one is 4', and if your measurement across the end points is 5', then it's square. That's much simpler geometry than figuring the diagonal.

So far as the diagonal measurements, I do that simple too. If both are the same measurement, you have a square whatever that measurement is.

 

[Tenneesse]

i commented about using treated material which has nothing to do with your problem but treated is not a good idea for a coop. Forget it

 

[TonySorrento]

treated is not a good idea for a coop.

What about a run?

 

[Roark]

The new stuff isn't as bad as the old, but it's still not good for most living things. You can mitigate this by sealing it real well though, plus it'll make everything last a whole lot longer. Wood does most of its wicking and expelling of moisture (and in this case that would include a certain amount of the preservative salts) through its end grain. Timber wax or a good slathering of siliconized exterior caulk on both cut ends resolve that. Then paint everything with a couple good coats of exterior latex. The pressure treated lumber that we get today at the big box stores is harvested very close to the time when we are trying to use it, so it is always VERY high in moisture content by the time the preservatives are applied. As this dries the wood shrinks, and that's where a lot of people get messed up down the road, especially when they set a pressure treated post in concrete.

As the lumber dries, it shrinks in all dimensions. If you have set a wet post in cement, the cement is hard long before the post has reached any kind of moisture equilibrium with its surroundings, so it keeps shrinking. As this continues a gap will form between the post and its surrounding concrete, and then the trouble starts. Rain runs down the post, through this new gap, and settles in the bottom where the end of a typically unsealed post bottom sucks it up. Being in such tight confines there is little room for bacteria to eat, so right as the post comes out of the concrete completely and the aerobic bacteria can get some air, they start to work and create rot. It's pretty easy to see, just drive around and look at any of the privacy fences installed in most suburban developments. The first thing to rot is always their concreted corner and gate posts.

Part of this is 'cuz the treated lumber sold at the home centers is rated for "Ground Contact", and not marine use, or constant submersion, and having an unsealed end grain spend it's life sitting in the puddle formed by the concrete is exactly that. There are easy ways to help slow this down. First, try to buy your treated lumber as far in advance as possible and sticker stack it like they do at the mills. it helps to suspend a tarp over it and have a fan keep air circulating through it as well. Don't set it on concrete 'cuz the concrete is a giant moisture sponge that pulls it out of the ground and will just prolong the process. The lower you can get the moisture content the better, and the less the wood will shrink and move afterwards. Once ya get all dried out then seal the ends and do your painting. If ya have to make any cuts just make sure to touch up your sealing and or painting, and the wood can last longer than you'll wanna look at it. Latex paint is basically a plastic film that encapsulates the wood, and wood is cellulose, which is basically to say it's just a giant sponge. As long as you keep oxygen and water out of it, it'll last forever.

Sorry for the TLTR but regarding your squaring issues. Having built many a building just let me say, nothing will haunt you like coming out of the ground out of square, level or plumb. Fix it now and the future will be so much simpler. Ignore it and you'll be findin' new uses for some old words. The geometry mentioned isn't really that complicated, so embrace it, it really is quite handy. Pythagorus was an old Greek guy who figure stuff out, and he made rules up that could be applied the same whether you were looking at a shape of a little box, or a giant stadium.

A squared + B squared = C squared is his rule for how a triangle with a 90 degree (perfectly square) corner behaves. You are trying to give your pen four perfectly square 90 degree corners. The length of each side, multiplied by itself and then added together will equal the square root of the diagonal measurement from corner to corner. In a 10' X 10' pen that means that since each side is 10 then A squared and B squared are the same, or 100 (the product of 10 times 10). You add those two products together to get a sum or 200 and then find the square root of 200 (even the cheapest cell phone calculator has that key on it nowadays). In this case the square root of 200 is 14.142136... whatever. Converted to feet and inches that works out to a shade over 14' 1/8", so if your posts are 10' apart measured from the outermost edges, then the diagonal measure from outer most corner to outermost corner should be 14' 1/8". You'll have to play with it a bit, but ultimately you need to get both diagonals to match to be perfectly square. Of course with posts already standing it's a lot easier to make your measurements from the inside corners, and that is a whole lot simpler with square posts, but 4" x 6" posts will just make ya nuts.

The other suggested rule that will work here for ya is the 3-4-5 rule. Again, using the old Greek's rule, if the inside angle is square (90 degrees) than the sum of the short sides (the legs) squared equals the square root of the long side (the hypotenuse). So (3x3) + (4x4) = (5x5) or...(9)+(16)=(25). Assuming your two legs (the 10' bottom rails or plates) are joined, just measure down one 3' and make a mark on the outside top edge. Then measure 4' down on the adjoining leg of the triangle you are trying to "square" and make a similar mark there. When you measure the diagonal distance from your first mark to the second you are measuring your triangle's hypotenuse. If it is longer than 5' exactly, then the inside angle formed by the two boards is greater than 90 degrees and they need to be brought closer together. Conversely, if the distance is anything less than 5' exactly, then the angle is too narrow and the legs need to be spread further apart. This is best done where one leg stays put and the other is moved, but you may have to play with it a bit if you already have them sitting in holes. The exactness is important because even a small error will magnify itself as you extend the length of your legs, or walls in this case. If you are a 1/4" out of square in 5' to start, by the time you get to 14' that has almost tripled to 3/4", and of course if this is just the first block of many to come, then the error is compounded even more the further you go, and so is the frustration.

Get your bottom properly square FIRST. Then plumb your posts perfectly in each direction as you look at them (that is left to right and toward and away from you). Use some temporary braces anchored to stakes if need be, but once that's done getting your tops square is simple. Trying to adjust to an out of square base when up on a ladder is not a fun way to spend a day cussin'. I would put it right up there with wallpapperin' a bathroom together as a leading cause of spousal homicide.

Sorry for the run on but even I was getting a little confused by the many different explanations of essentially the same helpful information, so I thought I'd try and make it even worse.

Good luck!

 

[galanie]

haha Roark love that last line.

I consider most treated lumber almost a waste of money for the very reason that it is still so wet when it gets treated. That means that the treatment isn't penetrating the wood like it should. Plus, like you said, when it dries it splits and warps all over the place unless stacked properly for drying. When I shop for something like landscape timbers I always try to get the straightest, lightest (and therefore dry) ones I can.