Caring for Salmon Faverolles with Chronic Bumblefoot | A Journal with Pictures

[Tookie]

Here's sort of an example of the difference: View attachment 3851869
The yellowy one on the left doesn't bleed much. I can pull the sheets out and sometimes there is some stringy white material beneath it.
The one on the right is kinda what the tissue beneath the scab on Brie's one foot looks like. But I haven't been able to remove the scab like that to get a picture because it starts bleeding a lot, so I stop.
I had been wondering if the red is normal tissue and the yellow is infection? I may be wrong on that. I will do some research.
The weird part is that the left foot scabbed over with a thin healthy looking (?) scab, whereas Brie's foot (similar to the above right picture) scabbed over very dark (collage below). Maybe I successfully removed the infection on the left foot?

View attachment 3851883

Hm, I'm really not sure exactly what's going on.
The left pics look like how my hens feet were when I removed the scab. I never had one look like the right pics.
Personally, if they're not limping, I think I would let them heal up and monitor them. Unless there's swelling then you do want to treat.
The foot with blood underneath the scab I would let heal (but like I said if there's swelling you probably want to continue treating), because I don't think there's any infection. Let it heal and just apply things to the outside without removing the scab.

 

[Elspeth Dinsmore]

Hm, I'm really not sure exactly what's going on.
The left pics look like how my hens feet were when I removed the scab. I never had one look like the right pics.
Personally, if they're not limping, I think I would let them heal up and monitor them. Unless there's swelling then you do want to treat.
The foot with blood underneath the scab I would let heal (but like I said if there's swelling you probably want to continue treating), because I don't think there's any infection. Let it heal and just apply things to the outside without removing the scab.

Yes, I think I may leave the scabs on any of the ones that have the red tissue underneath. I will inspect each hen to see whether there is swelling and it needs to be removed and treated. Thanks for helping!

Did your hens scabs end up going away? And if so, do you remember how long it took? Thanks!

 

[Elspeth Dinsmore]

┈┉─━⊰ Update #5 ⊱━─┉┈​

I am very concerned the swelling did not go down, but even looks worse today. It is also very warm. I am currently contemplating slightly cutting into the top of the foot to release pressure that is building up inside. Is this a bad idea? Could the core be in there? Anybody know?
I don't have access to antibiotics for her.

 

[Elspeth Dinsmore]

~ Update ~

I am very concerned the swelling did not go down, but even looks worse today. It is also very warm. I am currently contemplating cutting the top of the foot to release pressure that is building up inside. Is this a bad idea? Could the core be in there? Anybody know?
I don't have access to antibiotics for her.

View attachment 3852202
View attachment 3852207

I consulted some friends and they helped me decide not to cut into the top of the foot but to continue with wrapping treatments, soaks, etc. I'll be back to update when anything new happens.

 

[Tookie]

Yes, I think I may leave the scabs on any of the ones that have the red tissue underneath. I will inspect each hen to see whether there is swelling and it needs to be removed and treated. Thanks for helping!

Did your hens scabs end up going away? And if so, do you remember how long it took? Thanks!

Sounds good! Glad I can help!

You know I don't remember, I'll have to go look again.

 

[Tookie]

~ Update ~

I am very concerned the swelling did not go down, but even looks worse today. It is also very warm. I am currently contemplating cutting the top of the foot to release pressure that is building up inside. Is this a bad idea? Could the core be in there? Anybody know?
I don't have access to antibiotics for her.

View attachment 3852202
View attachment 3852207

I'm going to tag some more knowledgeable people and they should be able to give you some advice.
@Eggcessive @Wyorp Rock @azygous

 

[Elspeth Dinsmore]

I'm going to tag some more knowledgeable people and they should be able to give you some advice.
@Eggcessive @Wyorp Rock @azygous

Oh, thank you so much! I absolutely love Azygous, Eggcessive, & Wyorp Rock! I have searched around their posts for help with my bumble foot situation. They have been very informative.
Azygous was so kind to help us back when one of my hens died from egg-binding.

 

[azygous]

No. Do not cut into the swelling. Swelling of tissue associated with serious bumblefoot infection is something that seems to go with the territory. It can persist a year or longer after the bumblefoot kernel has been removed and the wound healed. I do not know why. But all efforts to treat the swelling will fail. That has been my experience. Even trying to treat with oral antibiotics nets no benefit.

Focus on the black bumble scab and removing it and the pus kernel, then treat the wound until it heals. No further surgery needs to be done unless the black bumble scab and kernel of solid pus returns. Then only lift out the kernel and don't try to remove tissue beyond that as unnecessary tissue damage will result.

 

[Elspeth Dinsmore]

No. Do not cut into the swelling. Swelling of tissue associated with serious bumblefoot infection is something that seems to go with the territory. It can persist a year or longer after the bumblefoot kernel has been removed and the wound healed. I do not know why. But all efforts to treat the swelling will fail. That has been my experience. Even trying to treat with oral antibiotics nets no benefit.

Focus on the black bumble scab and removing it and the pus kernel, then treat the wound until it heals. No further surgery needs to be done unless the black bumble scab and kernel of solid pus returns. Then only lift out the kernel and don't try to remove tissue beyond that as unnecessary tissue damage will result.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!
This is so helpful! I had not known swelling could remain for so long! This helps me not to be discouraged that it has not gone away.
I will not do further surgery or cut into the lump on the top of the foot.
The black scab continues to return on several feet. I have never seen an obvious kernel attached to the scab. Occasionally I have removed the yellowy, waxy sheets or a soft white stringy piece, but they have never been attached to the scab. That has been a big part of what perplexes me.
Here are some photos of the material I have been removing:

Should I be removing this material, or am I doing more damage to their feet? Thank you again!
You have been a blessing to us, Azygous!

 

[Elspeth Dinsmore]

┈┉─━⊰ Update #6 ⊱━─┉┈​

Alrighty! Protocol has been changed:

I soaked them all in warm water with Epsom Salt and one or two drops Oregano Oil.
I scrubbed their little feet with Dawn Dish Detergent using a soft-bristled toothbrush.
I rinsed with water and blotted dry.
Then I applied Betadine and/or Banixx to the feet. I let it dry.
I wrapped with Sugardine if the foot looked to still be infected and Bag Balm if the foot looked like it is healing.
I did not cut or remove any scabs since most of them looked to be okay today.
I wrapped them back up and will repeat again as often as I can.
We'll see how they do!

Updated pictures:
This is day 47 since treatment was started on Brie and Mari.
This is day 26 since treatment was started on Debbi.

Debbi: She is looking significantly better than when I first started working on her feet! What an encouraging outcome!

Day 1:

Day 26:

Mari: Mari is looking better, albeit, not as much improvement as Debbi. I have noticed the skin on their feet surrounding the wounds are looking much healthier in general. There was a small lump forming on the left toe in the right picture that has disappeared now.

Day 1:

Day 47:

(The lighting on the right picture is off. I didn't realize at the time, and now it is wrapped up.)