Chantecler Thread!

[malndobe]

How hard is it to breed for smaller wattles, and maintain them once you have them? I would say overall my hens have smaller ones, at least they are smaller than almost all of my other breeds. On the flipside I would like to see a little more size in the girls so… Hopefully they can produce some birds with the larger size and better cosmetic features. I will probably eat most of them though, so I'd rather have the size.

 

[Candy442]

Ok then...


We hatched out nine chanteclers with our all white Walter cockerel and three all white hens and we have two buff hens.

Two of the chicks have tiny little black dots on head and back chick down. Is that normal? I know they didn't get into the ink well LOL

Or.....is it because I am using a white cockerel over buff chantecler hens? I figured I would be able to tell the buffs from the white chick down?

any suggestions are welcome. They are by far the largest and fluffiest chicks in the brooder!

 

[FowlStuff]

Quote: Wheaten (eWh or ey) based chicks normally hatch with a dot or small line on the tops of their heads, so it may come thru due to the outcross of the two varieties. Often buff varieties are based on wheaten. Day-old chick phenotype can tell a lot, but I'm still guessing about E-locus genes when it comes the different varieties of Chanteclers.

 

[englishcockers]

Wheaten (eWh or ey) based chicks normally hatch with a dot or small line on the tops of their heads, so it may come thru due to the outcross of the two varieties. Often buff varieties are based on wheaten. Day-old chick phenotype can tell a lot, but I'm still guessing about E-locus genes when it comes the different varieties of Chanteclers.

I wonder too how being heterozygous at the I and Di loci will manifest as they feather out. please post pics as they mature.

 

[CanuckBock]

Ok then...


We hatched out nine chanteclers with our all white Walter cockerel and three all white hens and we have two buff hens.

Walter the white may hide anything and everything under his no pigment plumage. He could well be a "buff" that has white and white enhancer mutations added. Probably the largest spread of possibilities imaginable. Other than if'n you had crossed a self-black x a self white.

The "best" possible whites I have seen in chick down are the ones that have a "blue" cast to their down. That being a black based with silver that has both white mutations and the white enhancers. Think the bluing that is put in the final rinse for showing presentation, eh.

I wonder too how being heterozygous at the I and Di loci will manifest as they feather out. please post pics as they mature.

Hmm...one dose of dom white = blue or red pyle (pile). Had both genders in those.

Red Pyle Cockerel (pile of ??) with blue dilution expressed in tail



Red Pyle female with one dose blue dilution (exhibition white baggage, eh)
​

These chicks (feathered up) came from ...



This sire who obviously (hindsight is 20/20) has hidden one dose of dominant white
​

This is living proof as to why seeing white (note wing bow and tail feathers) in any amount (especially males, females display more expression) in self-buffs is something to avoid if proper expression is desired within yer lifetime.

Dilute is same pure or hetero as it is a completely dom allele as Di...red hens become light brown, and buff colouration goes to light yeller, black is lessen if it would have been in the legs, and black plumage is reduced, particularly in the tail and wings so it can be used to create multi lacing patterns that might otherwise remain invisible. Simply put, dilute is just that (duh!) and the chick down expresses that ... homo or hetero, chicks with Di are diluted compared to their counterparts lacking it.


I studied and researched my line of white bantam Wyandottes for five years to understand what was UNDER THE WHITE (which can be anything and everything). I had barring/cuckoo, silver/gold, dominant white, recessive white, and multiple blacks. I did this before even starting my real blooded bantam project in the Chanteclers (the Higgins White Dove project). HAD to know before crossing and undertaking this endeavour to make bantams from standards. Glad I did because the rainbow of chick down and adult plumage was not frightening (fear of the unknown incites being scared, eh) because I already had the prerequisite of knowing what would (and should) happen.

​

Bring on the RAINBOWs!

​

Got my buffs, my partridge and my white bases in bantam form with longevity and good production, fertility (hatching in winter) and temperaments I adore. The hardest one to formulate (got that still not where I would like) is the self Buff. You would be best to choose buff bases that exhibit BLACK (eumelanin) over WHITE (no pigment) if your objective is for self-buffs (phaeomelanin).

F1 and F2's - left to right partridge base / white base / self-buff base
Look out to lunch...HA!​

L00k at these F2 female's -
Partridge base / self-buff base / white base ​

I now have decent parti bantams, self-whites and the elusive self-buffs (knew they were gonna be like chook teeth to acquire!).

Day old F4's
Wanna guess what varieties...

I need to take some clicks of the adults I am using now these days I suppose...to busy doing to pause much at the moment. Too much fun to be had.

Many breeders of say the Buff Orpingtons will state they will choose a female with a bit of black in her tail but avoid like the plague, any female with white on their feathers. Harder I surmise to eliminate the NO PIGMENT (white) than to tone back the EUMELANIN (black).

Point to make...most difficult colour variety in the self colours to get correct (we are talking decades and multiple generations) is the SELF-BUFF. Just like particolours such as laced patterns like Silver/Golden/Blue Laced, Autosomal Barred/Pencilled, Partridge...royalty of the show pen to quote Dr. Carefoot...self buff is as difficult to get correct as partridge, single laced, and the pied pattern as found in waterfowl. It takes ONE generation to destroy a variety that has seen fifty years in the making.

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

 

[Candy442]

Walter the white may hide anything and everything under his no pigment plumage. He could well be a "buff" that has white and white enhancer mutations added. Probably the largest spread of possibilities imaginable. Other than if'n you had crossed a self-black x a self white.

The "best" possible whites I have seen in chick down are the ones that have a "blue" cast to their down. That being a black based with silver that has both white mutations and the white enhancers. Think the bluing that is put in the final rinse for showing presentation, eh.



Hmm...one dose of dom white = blue or red pyle (pile). Had both genders in those.

Red Pyle Cockerel (pile of ??) with blue dilution expressed in tail



Red Pyle female with one dose blue dilution (exhibition white baggage, eh)
​

These chicks (feathered up) came from ...



This sire who obviously (hindsight is 20/20) has hidden one dose of dominant white
​

This is living proof as to why seeing white (note wing bow and tail feathers) in any amount (especially males, females display more expression) in self-buffs is something to avoid if proper expression is desired within yer lifetime.

Dilute is same pure or hetero as it is a completely dom allele as Di...red hens become light brown, and buff colouration goes to light yeller, black is lessen if it would have been in the legs, and black plumage is reduced, particularly in the tail and wings so it can be used to create multi lacing patterns that might otherwise remain invisible. Simply put, dilute is just that (duh!) and the chick down expresses that ... homo or hetero, chicks with Di are diluted compared to their counterparts lacking it.


I studied and researched my line of white bantam Wyandottes for five years to understand what was UNDER THE WHITE (which can be anything and everything). I had barring/cuckoo, silver/gold, dominant white, recessive white, and multiple blacks. I did this before even starting my real blooded bantam project in the Chanteclers (the Higgins White Dove project). HAD to know before crossing and undertaking this endeavour to make bantams from standards. Glad I did because the rainbow of chick down and adult plumage was not frightening (fear of the unknown incites being scared, eh) because I already had the prerequisite of knowing what would (and should) happen.

​

Bring on the RAINBOWs!

​

Got my buffs, my partridge and my white bases in bantam form with longevity and good production, fertility (hatching in winter) and temperaments I adore. The hardest one to formulate (got that still not where I would like) is the self Buff. You would be best to choose buff bases that exhibit BLACK (eumelanin) over WHITE (no pigment) if your objective is for self-buffs (phaeomelanin).

F1 and F2's - left to right partridge base / white base / self-buff base
Look out to lunch...HA!​

L00k at these F2 female's -
Partridge base / self-buff base / white base ​

I now have decent parti bantams, self-whites and the elusive self-buffs (knew they were gonna be like chook teeth to acquire!).

Day old F4's
Wanna guess what varieties...

I need to take some clicks of the adults I am using now these days I suppose...to busy doing to pause much at the moment. Too much fun to be had.

Many breeders of say the Buff Orpingtons will state they will choose a female with a bit of black in her tail but avoid like the plague, any female with white on their feathers. Harder I surmise to eliminate the NO PIGMENT (white) than to tone back the EUMELANIN (black).

Point to make...most difficult colour variety in the self colours to get correct (we are talking decades and multiple generations) is the SELF-BUFF. Just like particolours such as laced patterns like Silver/Golden/Blue Laced, Autosomal Barred/Pencilled, Partridge...royalty of the show pen to quote Dr. Carefoot...self buff is as difficult to get correct as partridge, single laced, and the pied pattern as found in waterfowl. It takes ONE generation to destroy a variety that has seen fifty years in the making.

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

thanks Tara!! great info, but now my head is spinning...!

I thought it was as easy as getting an all white male and putting him over my white hens and getting....um....white?
So it sounds like White Chanteclers can be both Dominate and Recessive white? This will be VERY interesting breeding the white Chante's

Love the Red Pyle cockerel! Beauty!

 

[Folly's place]

x2! Candy and I have the same genetics in our white Chanteclers, although I don't have any buffs (at least here!) I had this fantasy that the whites would only produce white. So much for that! Pictures tomorrow, I hope. I do have a couple of chicks with light gray on their toplines, and white wing feathers developing. I'm terrible at figuring out chick combs, so maybe with photos it will be easier? Mary

 

[blkjak]

X3

I have a cockerel that is a cream color. I was not sure if I was going to breed him. I am a little confused from the above posts. I will have to reread and re evaluate reevaluate my thinking.

Thanks Tara. Great Info!

 

[FowlStuff]

thanks Tara!! great info, but now my head is spinning...! I thought it was as easy as getting an all white male and putting him over my white hens and getting....um....white?
So it sounds like White Chanteclers can be both Dominate and Recessive white? This will be VERY interesting breeding the white Chante's

Love the Red Pyle cockerel! Beauty!

I didn't take it as if Tara was saying anything about white to white not producing whites. I believe the main point was that white can hide a multitude of sins...like just about every color under the rainbow. These start to show up when outcrossing to other color varieties. Dominant white in recessive whites isn't a problem, but I also work at breeding it out of my buffs. The old timers suggested a little peppering in the tail on one side of a buff mating to produce the best buff coloring in their chicks. If you have "salt" rather than pepper, then you have dominant white in your buffs.

 

[Candy442]

I didn't take it as if Tara was saying anything about white to white not producing whites. I believe the main point was that white can hide a multitude of sins...like just about every color under the rainbow. These start to show up when outcrossing to other color varieties. Dominant white in recessive whites isn't a problem, but I also work at breeding it out of my buffs. The old timers suggested a little peppering in the tail on one side of a buff mating to produce the best buff coloring in their chicks. If you have "salt" rather than pepper, then you have dominant white in your buffs.

Right, I totally agree. It was me thinking that way---of course...with very little knowledge of chicken genetics

. Hmm...our two buffs have more "pepper" on their tails. I guess we will just have to see what the babies feather out like.