Chicken Genetics Blog

[MysteryChicken]

Is he pure duckwing based or is he het. for wheaten? What is his genotype? Where did you get laced Malays from?

The two breeders aren't currently selling right now.

There once was a variety of Malay that were called Pheasant due to laced pattern. Information on them is pretty much impossible to find now. The color variety seems to have gone extinct in modern Malays.

 

[Amer]

Spoiler: Laced Blue

https://birdgenetics.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F759008989076963328

 

[NagemTX]

Spoiler: Laced Blue

https://birdgenetics.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F759008989076963328

And with all the hard work AM's soon. Some of the older breeders of them don't like that tho.

 

[Amer]

And with all the hard work AM's soon. Some of the older breeders of them don't like that tho.

Yep
Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures of that. It's odd the older breeders don't like that though, it is quite a recent breed, its no wonder it had kinks to work out.

 

[SourRoses]

And with all the hard work AM's soon. Some of the older breeders of them don't like that tho.

Is that project in the works?
It's a bit odd what some of the older breeders like. Mike Gilberts birds he's entered in shows look more like D'Anvers to me. Which are perfectly lovely, but don't look like other breeders Ameraucana.

 

[SourRoses]

Okay, I found this on a fb group with the older set. I think your explanation of Blue lacing is 100x better, Amer.

Spoiler

I will be submitting a proposal to revise the Standard Description for the Blue Wheaten Male Ameraucana. This proposal will have two aspects to it. The first deals with the dark blue “lacing” on the breast. The definition of “lacing” calls for a distinct border of contrasting color around the entire web, uniform in width, and usually moderately narrow. It has been taught to me by several breeders and APA judges that the edging in the Blue Wheaten male breast is not distinct lacing, but edging at best. It is also known among genetics experts that there are three genes necessary for the true lacing; Co, Pg, and Ml. The consensus seems to be that the Blue Wheaten is lacking one of these three genes, which explains the lack of true, distinct lacing. Mike Gilbert, who developed the first Blue Wheaten Ameraucanas in Bantam, also acknowledges that the variety has never had the distinct lacing, and the wording calling it such was an error. Seeing how the Wheaten pattern is much more complicated than the Black/Blue/Splash, it is not as simple to bring in true lacing as it was for the Blue Ameraucana, as some breeders have done utilizing the Blue Andalusian. It is believed that doing so would alter the female phenotype adversely. I, and many other breeders of this variety, believe that the RIGHT thing to do would be to correct the error in the Standard rather than attempt to change the genetics on an entire variety. Therefore, the first aspect of this proposed revision will be to change the wording “laced with dark blue” to “edged with dark blue”.
The second aspect deals with the ever-present shafting when there is edging and lacing. It is believed among many experts that the shafting is a natural phenotype that accompanies any edging or lacing. In fact, the shafting is actually required in Blue Andalusian in the Australian Standard. Since this is a natural occurrence, and since shafting is considered a fault unless it is specifically called for in the Standard, the second aspect of this proposal includes “with some dark blue shafting”, but PLEASE NOTE, the shafting is only added to the clause that states “Preferably edged with dark blue”, which specifically only connects the shafting to the edging. Since the BW male allows no lacing/edging, and only lists the darker blue edging as “Preferable”, the shafting should remain with the edging only, and not on BW males that lack the dark blue edging.

 

[Amer]

Is that project in the works?
It's a bit odd what some of the older breeders like. Mike Gilberts birds he's entered in shows look more like D'Anvers to me. Which are perfectly lovely, but don't look like other breeders Ameraucana.

Mikes are like the OG IDK what I'm trying to say here.
Blue and black and white Ameraucana bantams always look odd to me because they look like poor quality d'Anvers to me.
There was a magnificent blue wheaten at the Coullee show shown by one of the younger exhibitors. Unfortunately, she appears to have too high of a tail here because taking pictures is hard.

 

[Amer]

Okay, I found this on a fb group with the older set. I think your explanation of Blue lacing is 100x better, Amer.

Spoiler

I will be submitting a proposal to revise the Standard Description for the Blue Wheaten Male Ameraucana. This proposal will have two aspects to it. The first deals with the dark blue “lacing” on the breast. The definition of “lacing” calls for a distinct border of contrasting color around the entire web, uniform in width, and usually moderately narrow. It has been taught to me by several breeders and APA judges that the edging in the Blue Wheaten male breast is not distinct lacing, but edging at best. It is also known among genetics experts that there are three genes necessary for the true lacing; Co, Pg, and Ml. The consensus seems to be that the Blue Wheaten is lacking one of these three genes, which explains the lack of true, distinct lacing. Mike Gilbert, who developed the first Blue Wheaten Ameraucanas in Bantam, also acknowledges that the variety has never had the distinct lacing, and the wording calling it such was an error. Seeing how the Wheaten pattern is much more complicated than the Black/Blue/Splash, it is not as simple to bring in true lacing as it was for the Blue Ameraucana, as some breeders have done utilizing the Blue Andalusian. It is believed that doing so would alter the female phenotype adversely. I, and many other breeders of this variety, believe that the RIGHT thing to do would be to correct the error in the Standard rather than attempt to change the genetics on an entire variety. Therefore, the first aspect of this proposed revision will be to change the wording “laced with dark blue” to “edged with dark blue”.
The second aspect deals with the ever-present shafting when there is edging and lacing. It is believed among many experts that the shafting is a natural phenotype that accompanies any edging or lacing. In fact, the shafting is actually required in Blue Andalusian in the Australian Standard. Since this is a natural occurrence, and since shafting is considered a fault unless it is specifically called for in the Standard, the second aspect of this proposal includes “with some dark blue shafting”, but PLEASE NOTE, the shafting is only added to the clause that states “Preferably edged with dark blue”, which specifically only connects the shafting to the edging. Since the BW male allows no lacing/edging, and only lists the darker blue edging as “Preferable”, the shafting should remain with the edging only, and not on BW males that lack the dark blue edging.

Yeah that is better.
'Tis true that I have never seen any blue bird with lacing or edging without shafting.
I've only seen a lack of shafting on blues so pale and even they could be described as "self-colored"--having no edging whatsoever though they aren't lavender.
Pg and Ml would be ruinous to wheaten.

 

[SourRoses]

I like your genetics blog posts way better than most breeders attempt at explanations. What that poster wrote in the breed group reads like a tangled mess. If you can explain it to a 5 year old... oops, did I just call myself one?

I know Gilbert wrote the standard and all, but the low wings and smaller beards bug me. Oh well, I'm making my own new breed that shall have nice horizontal wings! Maybe it takes me a decade, but I shall be happy with the result, lol.

 

[NagemTX]

Is that project in the works?
It's a bit odd what some of the older breeders like. Mike Gilberts birds he's entered in shows look more like D'Anvers to me. Which are perfectly lovely, but don't look like other breeders Ameraucana.

Its been in the works for a while actually. They use blue Andalusians for the lacing. The LF are getting very close to being done. They just need to fix flightyness that was brought in with the Andalusians and some tail and back issues.