Chickens ARE herbivores...

[mom'sfolly]

Yep, that "all vegetarian diet" means the chickens have never seen a live bug, grass, or anything else remotely natural. My chooks are definitely not "all vegetarian", and if they were larger I would fear for my life. I would have hated to be a small mammal when those birdlike dinosaurs were around.

 

[mandelyn]

Ever see the show "Mad Men"? It's about advertising executives in the 1960's. It's neat with how they go into creating a "want" in their audience to sell a product. In the first episode it was Lucky Strike cigarettes... the government wasn't allowing them to use ads that stated smoking was good for your health anymore, so they changed it to "smoking is cool" instead. But it sheds light on the gimmicks. It's still that way... creating a want to make people buy stuff.

First the media scares you. Then they offer a solution. Or they tell you it's what everyone else is doing. It's all so stupid! Reading through a label is hard, you have to look at the small print on the back. Does it contain crude oil based preservatives or other chemicals? That's what I care about. I'm not trying to eat cancer food or outright poison. FDA wants to know that it's safe... as in one meal won't kill you. Arsenic, rodent poop, ect... it's allowed in small amounts. There is a tipping point of when it's not ok anymore. But the more you eat of something, and the way a body stores good and bad things in fat cells... it can add up to cancer food or other issues.

Cows don't process grains very well. They have to ease them onto that diet. Depending on how long a cow has been at the lot is how much grain it will be fed. If you feed a high grain content to a newly arrived cow, it can kill it. So they transition the cow onto this diet.

But, research has shown that you can produce a larger cow with pretty marbling, in almost half the time, by feeding it grain. So they're not "finishing" them on grain commercially, they're outright raising them on it so that they can be processed at 18 months. Grass fed takes a lot longer to finish in comparison. Depending on the quality of pasture anyways, but still at least 24 months.

Grain fed beef is cheap to make, finishes the cattle early and at a better size, and takes less space. But the carbon footprint from that sort of farming is insane. The amount of waste from them standing on top of each other like that, the fields needed to grow the grains, the transportation of the cattle and the feed, the amount of water needed in one location (the feed lots)... it is not sustainable.

You're right, people buy into whatever they're told, for the most part. Both sides have gimmicks and outright lies. What they're teaching in AG school is going to directly reflect what the industry wants told to consumers. That way all the experts will be saying the same things. Who do you think funds the college programs and approves the curriculum?

You have to watch those organic and vegan groups too. They put GMO soy into everything, and you can't live healthy off that much soy, GMO or not. A chicken shouldn't live off that much soy, but certainly not a human either.

There is a new disease in children now, something about their DNA not functioning right. Makes me wonder why. Of course more research is needed. Then you have to pay attention to who is funding the research. It was the tobacco industry way back when that had medical research stating the benefits of smoking. So 30-50 years from now, what research will be considered wrong and influenced by an industry... that we're being told is truth today?

 

[cassie]

Cows process grain just fine. That said, you cannot give a large amount of grain to any ruminent that isn't used to it. That is true of a lot of feeds, not just grain. A ruminent's food is digested by bacterial action of micro-organisms living in the rumen. The number and kind of bacteria living in the rumen at any given time are influenced and determined by the diet. Different bugs are better suited to digesting different feeds. When adding things to the diet, you have to give the bacteria populations time to adjust to what is being fed. In the raising of dairy cattle, grain is part of the diet from very early on. As for beef, every place I have ever lived, beef cattle are not "raised" on heavy grain diets. Beef calves are born on pasture and run with their mothers until they are six months or so. Maybe more, maybe less. They may or may not have access to a creep ration with grain. A creep is a feeder where the little ones have access but the large cattle cannot get into. At around six hundred pounds or so, they are sold and moved to feed lots where they are finished on grain. Grain is not the only thing they are fed, by the way.

 

[lolita117]

Cows process grain just fine. That said, you cannot give a large amount of grain to any ruminent that isn't used to it. That is true of a lot of feeds, not just grain. A ruminent's food is digested by bacterial action of micro-organisms living in the rumen. The number and kind of bacteria living in the rumen at any given time are influenced and determined by the diet. Different bugs are better suited to digesting different feeds. When adding things to the diet, you have to give the bacteria populations time to adjust to what is being fed. In the raising of dairy cattle, grain is part of the diet from very early on. As for beef, every place I have ever lived, beef cattle are not "raised" on heavy grain diets. Beef calves are born on pasture and run with their mothers until they are six months or so. Maybe more, maybe less. They may or may not have access to a creep ration with grain. A creep is a feeder where the little ones have access but the large cattle cannot get into. At around six hundred pounds or so, they are sold and moved to feed lots where they are finished on grain. Grain is not the only thing they are fed, by the way.

Your right meat cows are not raised on grain, or in feedlots like someone else said. I live in a big beef cow area. 500-800 pound calves are sent to market after they've been in the pasture with their momas for however many months it takes for them to get that big. I don't know that much about feedlots. But I agree with the cattle having to be eased into the grain. And I'm sure they are also fed hay. But the lots are dry because they don't want the cows to have access to greenery 60-90 days before harvest. Not everybody likes grassfed. I have an aunt who harvested one of their own cows about 3 years ago, and was appalled by the smell and taste of their meat and couldn't figure out why the meat was so different. When she told me about this I explained to her the finishing process on cows. I personally have had some grassfed beef and lamb and I prefer the grain finished products. ~just my preference is all. I also prefer last season venison versus early season for the same reason. It it different, some like, some don't. When I mention it being better, I used the word "significantly." As in drastically better, it's not. It is a little bit, however. But I couldn't choke down grassfed beef for it being only a little bit better.

Not sure what some are meaning that the feedlot cows are not only fed grain. When I say grain I'm meaning a mostly grain diet. They aren't even crack corn, but rather a pelleted feed similar to what your horse feed looks like. It just doesn't have that sweet molasses in it. Their "meal" however will contain animal proteins in with the plant proteins. Ever seen meat meal or bone meal? They do add small amounts of this in some animal feeds. ~Not sure how much though.

Someone also said something about a "free-range" cow in feedlots. I've personally never seen a beef product labeled as free range. I was only referring to chickens with that term.

 

[theoldchick]

One of my first jobs as an LVT was trolling the feed lots with the boss. His job was to test these cattle and collect fecal samples. I never stuck or prodded so many animals before or since. The product fed to these cattle was appalling. The odor was atrocious and many of these cattle simply did not eat until they absolutely had to. These cattle were fed silage combined with a dubious source of protein.

And don't forget the handling of the carcass once the animal is slaughtered also determines the quality and flavor of the meat. The goal now days is to get the product to the public as soon as possible. No longer do slaughter houses hang a carcass to allow it to cure. Some of the old timers out there might remember how long a carcass was hung before it was divided for consumption. I want to say 7-14 days or something like that.

People today simply don't know or care where there food comes from. They have no idea how fast food companies provide all that tasty food. I say the public needs to be informed and allow them to make their own decisions. Give them facts, not lies, and let's see what happens.

 

[Godsgrl]

The documentary FRANKENSTEER is a good show about this very topic. I found it on Netflix. It talks about feedlots, what the cows are fed, and the problems with the feed they've had over the years. Very eye opening.

 

[cassie]

Quote:
The health of cattle in feedlots depends a whole lot on where they are, how they are fed, and how they are managed. Trying to fatten cattle on a ration they are reluctant to eat is a bit counterproductive. In the feedlots with which I am familiar, and there have been a few, cattle are fed grain and hay in varying proportions. Sometimes the hay is chopped and mixed with the grain and supplements to form a complete all-in-one ration. I have also seen brewers grains fed. I have seen a lot of silage fed to dairy cattle, beef cattle not so much. By the way, silage is excellent feed and cattle like it. If the cattle in your feedlots didn't like the silage or other feed, there was something wrong with it.

 

[theoldchick]

There was something very wrong with it. I forgot to mention this feed lot was a feed 'test' station. What they wanted those cattle to eat was appalling. No, it wasn't just silage-which is a good feed- these cattle had to eat a mixture of silage with whatever was being tested at that particular time. And the folks running the 'test' quickly discovered what you just said: when cattle don't eat well they don't gain weight. They develop bloat much more often, and generally don't do well when forced to eat something they were never designed to eat.

 

[ozark_chickies]

One of my first jobs as an LVT was trolling the feed lots with the boss.  His job was to test these cattle and collect fecal samples. I never stuck  or prodded so many animals before or since.  The product fed to these cattle was appalling.  The odor was atrocious and many of these cattle simply did not eat until they absolutely had to.  These cattle were fed silage combined with a dubious source of protein.

And don't forget the handling of the carcass once the animal is slaughtered also determines the quality and flavor of the meat.  The goal now days is to get the product to the public as soon as possible.  No longer do slaughter houses hang a carcass to allow it to cure.  Some of the old timers out there might remember how long a carcass was hung before it was divided for consumption.  I want to say 7-14 days or something like that.

 People today simply don't know or care where there food comes from.  They have no idea how fast food companies provide all that tasty food.  I say the public needs to be informed and allow them to make their own decisions.  Give them facts, not lies, and let's see what happens.

Used to work at a custum slaughter house and a few customers wanted them to hang as long as possible. 7 minimum, 14 days average, and if there is enough fat on the carcass they can go as long as three weeks.

 

[oldrooster]

My chickens are omnivores. My cattle are herbivores, and my horse is a vacuum. He'll eat it no matter what.

Our cattle are grass fed as grain is very expensive in our neck of the woods. However, I've seen what those feedlots feed, and it's not a grain only diet.

Our grass fed cattle (angus) produce a nice carcass, with suitable marbling. The fat is white, not yellow, and the meat has a great taste. While diet does influence meat production, breeding also has an influence in what ends up on the table. You don't normally see Holstein steaks on the table.

Having said that, the media does influence what people eat. False advertising, outright lies, and so forth. I recommend the consumer research all they can about a product they are buying. Question everything, and let the food producers know the consumers of today are more informed than ever before.

Don't put down Holstein cattle where do you think a lot of beef comes from? Jersey and Holstein steers (along with other cattle breeds) are sent to the processing plants because steers and bulls make no milk! And I have eaten more locally raised Holstein than other breeds.