Chickens are stupid??

[MsBagawkbagawk]

I agree with ChickensRDinos, stupid is relative. They aren't just mindless zombies; they can be really be very intelligent. They're just smart in their own way. I taught my d'Uccle hen to count to three, but it was really more just recognizing cues and responding, like teaching a dog to sit. The dog learns your body language and verbal cues, and learns how to respond. I just held up three fingers, and said THREE, then she learned to peck my hand, three times. But they can't really comprehend and solve a situation, like when I held up four fingers and said four, she still pecked my hand three times. She wasn't able to transfer the skill. Remember when you were first learning addition? When you learned the premise, you could go, "Oh, so if 2+2 is 4, then 2+3 is going to be 5!" Your teacher didn't have to teach you individual facts. Because you understood the premise of what addition is, it wasn't a far step to larger problems. Where as, if I wanted to teach my hen to peck my hand four times, she would have to relearn the skill like it's a totally different idea. Chickens just aren't the same kind of smart that humans are.

Really, you have to decide what your definition of "stupid" is. If "stupid" is not being able to react to changes like moving the door on a coop, chickens might not really be the brightest. But if "stupid" is being able to remember that food comes from a certain place, yeah, chickens are intelligent. And if "stupid" is not being able to relate skills, chickens aren't really "smart".

I read somewhere (Storey's Guide to Raising Chickens maybe?) research was being done to see if chickens are able to think and communicate about past events. If they can, does that make them "smart"? That's really up to what you consider "dumb".


Quote: A chicken is born with these skills. A rooster (any chicken really) knows that something big flying in the sky might be dangerous. A broody hen doesn't have to sit on bad eggs to learn to recognize them. A chicken doesn't have to get frostbit to learn to try and be warm. A chicken knows to recognize what toxic plant looks like.

Personally, no, I don't think chickens are dumb. I do think we often mistake personality for intelligence. Just because a chicken follows me everywhere doesn't really make it smarter than any of the others. In fact, it might make them dumber than the rest, because I could be dangerous (I'm not, but the chickens might not realize that). So often though people will think that the chicken is intelligent, just because they have a distinct personality.

That's my 2 cents.

~~Ms.B

 

[ChickensRDinos]

People always look at intelligence in human terms. A chicken in not interested or evolved to use a computer or make tools - it does not need to.

I am not really sure what the point is of saying chickens are intelligent compared to chickens.

I am not trying to say anything negative about chickens. I think chickens are awesome and lovely and well suited to being chickens. They have a place in the world and deserve respect. They can do many things better than people, but intelligence is inherently a scale. The question isn't can chickens learn? or aren't chickens wonderful? it's: are chickens stupid? To answer that it has to be stupid compared to what?

Nature is beautiful and the incredible diversity is overwhelmingly amazing. I could talk for hours about my childhood obsession Koko the sign language gorilla or my favorite TV show of all time, a discovery special about how orca whales learn and TEACH new skills to one another (!!!) or even HIV which is arguably genius in how it functions and evolves on a protein level. Chickens do have intelligence but they do not rank high on any of the various scales, even when compared to other birds. This does not make them lacking in value. (you can also add into the conversation that chickens as we know them are domesticated which makes this issue even more complex)

Homing is not intelligence it is instinct. Often homed birds will go home even if it is not safe. After being attacked, that is exactly what mine did. Not good reasoning.

Yes, my chickens recognize me and I have been able to train a few of them to come when I call their name. I taught my chickens how to use a treadle. You could argue that their ability to learn this new skill shows that they can in fact learn. It requires memory, very simple problem solving and the ability to understand that something exists that you can not see - forms of intelligence. Does this make them smart? As compared to what? I am confident with time and effort I could teach them to do something a little more complex. But, treadle training took 2 full weeks and there are still struggles and mishaps. I could train my dog to do it 20 minutes with more consistent success, and to be honest my dog is a little stupid. (My dog is also amazing and has great value).

 

[MsBagawkbagawk]

Also, to the OP, could you post your sources for studies saying chickens are dumb or smart? I'm really interested to see how anyone would go about setting up an experiment to prove one way or the other, and how they are defining "stupid". I'd really appreciate it, thanks!

~~Ms.B

 

[Barrdwing]

On the subject of chicken intelligence, I have an example. This evening Hammie, the EE cockerel orphan we ended up hand-raising, found me finishing up a project in the chicken yard. It was getting dark and the rest of the birds had gone to roost. Normally I would have gone and done my egg collection and final close-up of the coops twenty minutes ago, but I really wanted to finish fixing the wire. Hammie is always the last bird to go to roost, because he's low bird in the rooster pecking order and has to sleep in his own little hutch. Part of our evening chores is picking him off the top of the door and putting him in his hutch.

So here comes Hammie, trekking across the yard in the dusk. I was kneeling down attaching the last of the wire. Hammie stopped at my knee, looked up, clucked sternly, and then gently took hold of the skin of my elbow and tugged me towards the coop. I got up and went to put him to bed, with Hammie pacing docilely along behind me.

It's hard not to anthropomorphize one's pets, goodness knows. But here was a bird who perceived that the proper evening ritual was not being carried out, and went to correct the matter. It wasn't a bad bit of reasoning that he managed there, about on the level I'd expect from a dog. Hammie's a little confused at times as to what species he is, but he's pretty bright.

 

[MsBagawkbagawk]

Jak, I have to disagree with the info on that link. Firstly, it has no sources.

It has now been confirmed by doctors and professors alike that chickens’ brilliant cognitive capacities match even those of mammals and primates.

Umm, what doctors and professors? When was a statement released that said they matched humans and primates in their cognitive capacities?

. These include, separate alarm calls depending on whether a predator is travelling by land or sea. They are also brilliant at solving problems, just like monkeys.

That is pretty cool, but where did this info come from? Maybe I would be more sympathetic if the author had a source to prove they're good problem solvers.

.They also have more than thirty types of vocalizations.

Yes, but they will know these anyways, they don't learn what a food call means, or when to use it. A hen that hatches babies will just know to use the food call even if she hasn't ever before. Same with a rooster, when he wants to attract hens, he'll use the food call (sometimes, other times it's genuine) then courtship dance. It's not necessarily "cunning" of him to trick hens over with the food call, because it's what they've been doing over thousands of years of evolution.

. They do quite well in learning, show a rich social organization, and also have a diverse repertoire of calls. Anyone who has kept barnyard chickens also recognizes their significant differences in personality".

These three points are just being repeated over and over with no real "evidence". As for the last sentence, it's just another case of personality being mistaken for intelligence. Just because someone has a funny personality doesn't mean they're smart.

. It’s all really down to public attitudes, so let us all look to a bright future for these naturally lively, graceful and beautiful birds and put an end to the horrific manner in which they are now being kept, confined to a short unhealthy life of stress and misery inside abattoirs, factory farms and slaughter houses. They are de-beaked as chicks and many at once are forcefully crammed into A4 sized cages and have to stand on their own excrement’s as no one cleans their cages. Death comes after they are hung upside down on a moving belt, FULLY CONSCIOUS, stressed and scared and are then dipped in tanks of boiling water and then lightly stunned and have their throats cut. In conclusion, it is a really horrifying and painful ordeal these birds go through and we have to question ourselves that why do we allow these things to happen.
We must strongly oppose against such barbaric cruelty and put an end to this forever. We can begin by giving up meat and then convince our family and friends to stop. Spread the news and tell them what is happening to chickens. Let them allow to move around freely once again, so that future generations can watch and enjoy the chickens’ species roaming freely and in harmony in the lush greenery and open air as Mother Nature had always intended it to be for them and, of course, awaken to the most natural morning rooster call of all:; “cock-a-doodle-doo!”
The End.

This last passage is just totally biased opinions that destroy any shred of respect or trust I had in the rest of this article. (Not that I am supporting inhumane treatment of chickens, but never in a "formal" article such as this should an authors biased opinions be "forced" upon the reader.)

Without any sources this article, frankly, proves absolutely nothing. I'm not trying to be mean, but this really just isn't a trustworthy source of info.

 

[CluckyCharms]

Also, to the OP, could you post your sources for studies saying chickens are dumb or smart? I'm really interested to see how anyone would go about setting up an experiment to prove one way or the other, and how they are defining "stupid". I'd really appreciate it, thanks!

~~Ms.B

I'd be happy to share the sources with you.

http://www.nwedible.com/2012/01/3-myths-about-chickens-debunke.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/08/werner-herzog-on-chickens_n_1262753.html
http://freefromharm.org/farm-animal...-more-science-elevating-chicken-intelligence/
http://animal.discovery.com/news/briefs/20050711/chicken.html
http://www.mfablog.org/2011/03/new-study-finds-chickens-feel-empathy.html
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=410238
http://www.farmforward.com/features/chicken-vs-chimp
http://www.bwcsa.co.za/issues/animals-as-food/chickens
http://www.lostdogsite.com/pets/evidence-of-high-chicken-intelligence.html

Those are just a few. However, as I stated in my opening post..there's really only one of those that holds any weight (to me anyway). There are other citations regarding the intelligence level of chickens (and how stupid they apparently are), but they are unfortunately at the library and I will need to get those for you another time.

Some of you continue to kick a dead horse by comparing chickens to dogs or apes or humans. They're not the same species. If you look at what the actual literal definitions for the words are, instead of trying to debate and be argumentative you would understand what I mean when I say chickens are not stupid. Intelligence of a human, a dog, a cat or an ape has absolutely no relativity whatsoever in regard to chickens and their level of intelligence. I'm not the one with the definition...that would be those who wrote the language, composed the words and gave them meaning (that's not me).

If the definition of the word "stupid" means to be slow-minded and given to unintelligent decisions or acts...then let's take a look at that. What is unintelligent?

Unintelligent: "not having or showing an ability to absorb ideas readily." (Merriam-Webster) Can chickens absorb ideas given to them by their masters in a short period of time? Yes

Intelligent: a : "having or indicating a high or satisfactory degree of intelligence and mental capacity" (Merriam-Webster) Okay...so if that references to the word "Intelligence" let's look at that.

Intelligence: "the ability to learn and understand or to deal with problems" Do chickens have the ability to learn? yes, they do. Do they have the ability to understand and deal with problems? Yes, they do.


This was never meant to be a debate or an argumentative thread, but some choose to say things that are unrelated in order to (in my opinion) stir the pot. That being said, I'll probably let this thread drop off my reading list. Otherwise, me being who I am, will continue to argue back (which would make me a hypocrite, argumentative and generally ugly...and get me in trouble with God too...and I've been in trouble with Him enough this week).

 

[theoldchick]

Who are you calling stupid?

 

[bakerjw]

IMHO, chickens are pretty low on the intellect scale. Their behaviors are mostly driven by instinct. Their genetic makeup has them preprogrammed to know how to do certain tasks. How does a chick know how to pip and zip when in the egg? no one showed my first chicks how to scratch, or how to take a potato chip that is too large to eat and break it on the ground.

That is not to say that chickens cannot be trained. All animals can be trained to some degree but that is condition modified behavior. The intelligence factor comes in as to how fast that they learn the conditioning.

 

[ChickensRDinos]

Intelligent: a : "having or indicating a high or satisfactory degree of intelligence and mental capacity" (Merriam-Webster) Okay...so if that references to the word "Intelligence" let's look at that.

How are you evaluating whether or not chickens as a species have a "high or satisfactory degree of intelligence" if you are only willing to compare them to other chickens? Would the answer then not always be yes because a chicken will on average always be satisfactory when compared to a chicken? What does this prove?

I am honestly not trying to provoke - I genuinely want to understand your logic and point of view here.

I think you have proposed a very interesting topic with your initial post.

 

[Baymule]

My hens may not be brilliant, but they are smart enough to eat, lay eggs that they aren't going to sit on anyway, and amuse me.