Chicks on layers pellets

[hellfire]

I don’t see any Marans in that picture. I thought Marans had feathered feet?

Not all Marans have feathered feet. They should though. There are some that hatch from time to time without the feathering and then these are still bread from. The french standard requires feathered feet/shanks. There’s many marans these days that sadly don’t carry that trait on.
I have no idea if these are meant to be pure or hybrid marans?

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I don’t see any Marans in that picture. I thought Marans had feathered feet?

French style marans have feathered legs.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I used to have links to more studies about feeding excess calcium to growing chicks. This is not the best one but it's the only link I have left. These places are constantly upgrading and improving their storage and online access so the links are often broken. I'm not going to spend the time searching for more studies.

http://en.engormix.com/MA-poultry-i.../avian-gout-causes-treatment-t1246/165-p0.htm

Anyway, there are studies out there that show excess calcium can sometimes injure growing chicks. I'm trying to be careful how I phrase that, there is enough panic o this subject already. These studies show that if growing chicks are fed feed with the amount of calcium in Layer feed chick mortality increases. This does not mean every chick dies. It means that they raise different groups of chicks as identical as they can with the only difference being that one group is fed nothing but feed equivalent to Layer and the other is fed an equivalent feed but with the calcium content closer to 1% as opposed to the approximately 4% calcium in Layer.

In the group with the 4% calcium the number of chicks that died was higher than the number of chicks that died when fed 1% calcium. They raised several batches like this. The results were consistent across the different batches. They also cut some chicks open at various ages to inspect internal organs. Again the results were consistent, more chicks in the 4% group had more kidney or liver damage than the chicks in the 1% group.

What can we learn from this? Not all the 4% chicks died. Not all the 4% chicks had internal damage. But enough did that it was clear that feeding them Layer can cause damage to growing chicks and should be avoided.

Another important thing is that one bite will not kill them. The damage is cumulative. The longer they are on that diet the worse it is. One study I saw did not start feeding them the excess calcium until the chicks were 5 weeks old. Other studies started at hatch. The numbers might have been different but the conclusion was the same. Feeding growing chicks that much calcium can harm a growing chick.

One important thing is that these chicks in the studies were fed nothing but the high calcium feed. It is not about how much calcium is in one bite, it's about how many total grams of calcium they eat all day, and even that is averaged out over several days. The more their diet consists of low calcium foods the less the total amount of calcium is so the smaller the chance of damage. If we are raising ours in brooders we are providing everything they eat so they may be getting a lot of calcium. But if they are being raised where they can forage for a lot of their feed the amount of high calcium feed they eat may not be very much. This is especially true with my chicks raised by my broodies. These chicks get some feed first thing in the morning and may get one more feeding later in the day but my broodies keep them out foraging the rest of the time.

I don't feed Layer at all. I feed Starter or Grower to everyone with oyster shell on the side for the ones that need it for egg shells. Even if I did feed Layer I don't think my broody-raised chicks would eat enough to harm themselves. My brooder-raised chicks would be different. But since I don't know I don't take a chance and avoid Layer.

@hellfire from your post I'm not convinced the difference in size is due to calcium. How did you feed yours, especially what protein levels and how much foraging did they do? My guess is that he fed them a pretty low protein diet with that corn and those greens. It's also possible since they were not heated after the first week that may have set them back some but I don't know what temperatures they went through. They were raised differently from yours, it's no surprise they are different.

How would I feed them from now on? On your regular diet. If any harm has been done it is already done. If it is malnutrition they may never get as big as they could have on a different diet but they should straighten out and thrive on your diet. I just don't see any other option.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Not all Marans have feathered feet. They should though. There are some that hatch from time to time without the feathering and then these are still bread from. The french standard requires feathered feet/shanks. There’s many marans these days that sadly don’t carry that trait on.
I have no idea if these are meant to be pure or hybrid marans?

I copied this from the Marans Chicken Club USA webpage.

Over the years, birds and eggs have been brought in not only from France but also from countries such as England, Canada, Australia, and possibly Belgium and Switzerland. Importations of "English type" clean-legged Marans have led to the establishment of many clean-legged flocks in this country, especially in the cuckoo variety; nonetheless, the American standard adheres to the French standard calling for lightly feathered shanks and toes.

And the link.

General Description | Marans Chicken Club, USA

Each country has its own standards for chicken breeds. In France and the US Marans are supposed to have feathered legs and you need feathered legs to show them in the US. But the UK standards do not call for feathered legs. Are they still Marans if they don't have feathered legs? It makes for a nice argument.

 

[Liz Birdlover]

I don’t see any Marans in that picture. I thought Marans had feathered feet?

Some do. These are sex link Maran hens, 3 have the black with chest copper feathers, 2 are all black. Of course when buying chicks, the seller can call them anything. These chicks were at Tractor Supply being sold as sex link Maran hens, so not sure who bred them. Their eggs are so dark brown though, when they 1st started laying it looked like chocolate eggs!

Here are some photos of Marans, some have foot feathers, some don't. I'm not into showing or breeding them for perfection. Their eggs are amazing though, really nice size & they're good layers.

https://images.app.goo.gl/ZY1WFoEXzfdCgza39

https://images.app.goo.gl/qqSyfMhLeUx1A9VB8

 

[hellfire]

Some do. These are sex link Maran hens, 3 have the black with chest copper feathers, 2 are all black. Of course when buying chicks, the seller can call them anything. These chicks were at Tractor Supply being sold as sex link Maran hens, so not sure who bred them. Their eggs are so dark brown though, when they 1st started laying it looked like chocolate eggs!

Here are some photos of Marans, some have foot feathers, some don't. I'm not into showing or breeding them for perfection. Their eggs are amazing though, really nice size & they're good layers.

https://images.app.goo.gl/ZY1WFoEXzfdCgza39

https://images.app.goo.gl/qqSyfMhLeUx1A9VB8

It makes no difference to me I’m the same not into showing. I think they are lovely looking hens anyway. I’ve had marans with feathered legs and without. I pref a clean legged bird personally. Less problems being free range I think. I bought some marans years ago and still keep marans in my mixed flock as love the look of them and love the dark eggs. Many of my egg customers prefer dark eggs.