Cloaca plugged - pictures in post

[as110]

I called an online vet. She says it sounds like Cloacalith.

I soaked her again, this time there wasn’t any more poop coming off. I tried to pick at it and it was bleeding again. Now the more I look at it I can see the edges that it’s necrotic tissue and not poop. This needs to be debrided. I don’t know if I can do that.

View attachment 1903388

When she bears down she is hurting and she has the urge to bear down often. View attachment 1903391

It is possible that she is plugged up but that’s secondary to the scarred exit.

 

[Eggcessive]

This is an interesting thread. Here is an article that describes a cloacalith as a solid impaction of urates or uric acid, being foul smelling, and may also sometimes contain fecal matter:
https://www.openveterinaryjournal.com/OVJ-2017-08-149 D.L. Di Nucci and M.P. Falzone .pdf

Debridement can be done with rubbing a wash cloth or gauze pad, and is best done after the vent is soaked in warm Epsom salts, or soapy water for about 30 minutes. Afterward dry and apply plain Neosporin or Triple Antibiotic Ointment.

 

[BarredRockMom]

Oh HALLELUYAH, somebody knows! I have been thinking about you two all day!

And you CAN debride the wound! YOU are a Chicken Mom & you can do anything that they need! If it makes you feel any better, the necrotic tissue is dead anyway, so you won't be hurting her getting that part off.

It will take patience to soak her for as long as needed, tho. Soaking is better than not having an option!

 

[as110]

I will read that article, thank you.

I found a vet in Canada that does surgery. However he wouldn't give any advice over the internet. He is too far from me so that plan is out. I contacted an internet vet in the US and she said it sounded like cloacalith. With that reassurance, I started a treatment plan.
I soak her twice a day, she gets coconut oil to slide things down and out easier, and greek yogurt in case she needs the bacteria. She soaks in warm water for a long time, probably 45-60 minutes. She is fine with this. While she soaks lots of gunk gets loose and comes off in the water so I can see it better when she is out of the water. I blow warm air on her while I scrape whatever I can get off. Things come off in crumbs. The black tissue is actually pretty tough to deal with because it rips the skin off and therefore it bleeds. A little pressure stops it. When I get a bleeding spot, I stop on that spot and move around trying to not hurt her. I keep going as long as she lets me, and she does, and as long as I can get anything come off. The goal is to get the necrotic tissue off so the normal tissue can stretch as it is supposed to.

During the day she was in the dog crate. I could hear her complaining every time she was trying to poop and probably every half hour. It must be painful. Now this evening after I got some black stuff off, she was able to poop with much less whining. The poop is runny because I gave her coconut oil and she gobbled it. I don't know where I read to give a drop of oil. I gave a spoonful and she loved it. Same with the greek yogurt.

It is possible I am dealing with multiple problems. Fly strike that damaged the skin and caused necrosis and scarring, which is why the tissue can't stretch, and caused an impaction. She might be trying to get rid of an egg, which I can't feel when she is not straining, but I can see it when she is straining. She is in the stance of laying the egg, and the channel comes way down, the size and shape is equal to an egg inside which can't come out as long as the cloaca is full and the skin is a hard shield around the exit. Is it possible it is just the rock the size of an egg? yes it is possible. An egg inside is also a possibility. Only and x-ray could tell for sure. She is about 2-3 years old, closer to 3. She could be still laying eggs.

This whole soaking, picking and drying takes 2 hours each time. She doesn't try to escape, she is enjoying it and like she knows I am trying to fix whatever is bothering her, she stands there and lets me do it.

If she were fighting or crying or squirming, I would give up. She is not lethargic, she is eating drinking, scratching and socializing and running. I hope this works and I will keep going at it as long as I can see that it helps. If it looks like I am making things worse, I will stop and euthanize her. For now I can't see that there is pus and a new infection. I put polysporin with pain medication in it, and hopefully it will help soften whatever is so tough and dry there.

 

[Shadrach]

I would be concerned that the end of the intestine has accumulated dried fecal matter.
When a hen lays an egg, the point at which the intestine joins the oviduct gets closed off.
If the is dried fecal matter in the intestine and she is trying to lay an egg then the pressure from the egg is likely to squeeze any dried lumps of fecal matter and I imagine this is painful.
You may find that giving your hen a stool softener such as this; note, this is not a laxative, helps the problem.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/DulcoEase-Stool-Softener-Soft-Capsules/dp/B001DR9TRE/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1GILTWSA4W1UL&keywords=dulcolax&qid=1554728095&s=gateway&sprefix=dulco,aps,492&sr=8-4

 

[as110]

I would be concerned that the end of the intestine has accumulated dried fecal matter.
When a hen lays an egg, the point at which the intestine joins the oviduct gets closed off.
If the is dried fecal matter in the intestine and she is trying to lay an egg then the pressure from the egg is likely to squeeze any dried lumps of fecal matter and I imagine this is painful.
You may find that giving your hen a stool softener such as this; note, this is not a laxative, helps the problem.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/DulcoEase-Stool-Softener-Soft-Capsules/dp/B001DR9TRE/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1GILTWSA4W1UL&keywords=dulcolax&qid=1554728095&s=gateway&sprefix=dulco,aps,492&sr=8-4

That’s a good idea. I thought I had that at home but I don’t. I will pick up some later today. The vet I am talking to says I am doing the right thing. She can’t prescribe medication over the internet but it’s ok. I can just go pick up what I need.

So I debrided twice since yesterday. This is how it looks this morning.

 

[BarredRockMom]

Ok, I read polysporin with pain medication in it & my heart stopped. I remember reading that chickens have a toxic reaction to the pain part of Neosporin, polysporin, etc so please only use plain.

Anyone else remember this??

And she sounds like a delightful girl. Boy, what a little gem you have there & your dedication tells her and everyone else how much you love her. So sweet!

 

[casportpony]

Ok, I read polysporin with pain medication in it & my heart stopped. I remember reading that chickens have a toxic reaction to the pain part of Neosporin, polysporin, etc so please only use plain.

Anyone else remember this??

This is what a vet wrote:
"So bottom line, it is safe to use "cain" medications in poultry, as long as it is done carefully. You're not going to get into trouble with topical medications on a prolapse unless you squeeze the whole tube into the oviduct after you've replaced it back inside, then hold the vent closed long enough for too much of the drug to absorb into the bloodstream (it would probably take a very long time). Just applying a smear to what's hanging out, waiting 5 minutes, then working the oviduct back in will give very minimal absorption into the bloodstream immediately, as most will absorb into the tissues. It will take hours for the drug to slowly work its way out of the tissues, giving the body plenty of time to metabolize it. If you were to use injectable local anesthetics, then poultry are somewhat sensitive to them by comparison to other species, on a mg/kg basis, so total injected dose has to be monitored carefully to avoid complications. But that's true for all small animals and humans. The only time it's not an issue is with cattle and horses, which are so large that it's almost impossible to overdose with those drugs. So I can see how many people would believe that "cain" products are dangerous in poultry. Most vets that come to farms are large animal vets. If a farmer were to ask a large animal vet to treat a 5-10 lb chicken, when he's used to treating a 1,000 lb animal without concern for total injected dosage, I could easily see an overdose occurring. That happens a few times and all of a sudden the medication is labeled as dangerous."

 

[as110]

There won’t be anything absorbed on the dry and dead parts because there is no circulation. The area that has broken skin is where it would work.
However I can see that she is picking at it (also she was helping when I was using the tweezers) so I won’t be using that.

She is not stinking so much anymore.

I gave her the Docusate.

What can I give her for the pain internally? Anti inflammatory something? I have a feeling she is trying to lay an egg and it’s not moving.

Can I suppress egg production if I keep her in the dark longer? And how many hours of light does a hen need to produce eggs? Maybe I can cover the crate and just give her enough light but not so much that she produces eggs.

 

[glassdragonfly]