cocci . . . *updated questions p. 3*

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by KatyTheChickenLady, Jul 12, 2009.

  1. KatyTheChickenLady

    KatyTheChickenLady Bird of A Different Feather

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    Updated questions:

    In order to cover all bases, can I treat with Corid and Sulmet in the water at the same time?

    What is the incubation period of cocci? I get it that it is 4 days from symtoms to death but how long is it from infection to symptoms?

    A HUGE thank you to all of the experts, three horses and Glenda you are the best!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2009
  2. threehorses

    threehorses Songster

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    Quote:Definitely not. Use either one or the other. Corid is preferred in this case. Tho either is acceptable on its own.
     
  3. threehorses

    threehorses Songster

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    Quote:Ohhhh you're feeding an antibiotic. BMD is Bacitracin an antibiotic - not just a coccidiostat. Antibiotics are a standard practice for industrial poultry applications but not really your best bet for small flocks. What brand is it may I ask? If possible next batch try to get a starter/starter grower that is NOT medicated with BMD.

    Giving Corid with the feed amprolium is not too much. It's fine.

    The dosage is 2.6 cc's per gallon of water. (You can use an empty syringe to measure). Or a 1/2 teaspoon (kitchen measuring spoon please) per gallon.

    PVS? I'm confused - what is this? In any case you probably only want the meds and water in the water.

    I can easily change the feed, but if you don't mind, since I am trying to learn about this, would you explain why the BMD is not good? thanks!

    BMD is not good because it's an antibiotic. Generally, for small flocks, you want to avoid preventative antibiotics as it leads to antibiotic resistance. Also, antibiotics kill the good bacteria of the gut which are absolutely essential for thriving birds.

    Bacterially medicated feeds are really designed for larger or broiler type production poultry units where birds are raised for slaughter or will spend their days in single-age quarantine-type environments. (Your poultry houses, etc.)

    It won't kill them, but it's just like giving anything constant antibiotics - it's just not ideal.

    Amprolium is different as it's an anti-coccidial and doesn't have effect on people or poultry with any antibiotic resistances later on.

    As for incubation periods, I've read it can be as long as quickly as 4-7 days. But they're different than bacteria. They shed oocysts, the animal picks those up, and the disease progresses from there. Oocysts can exist in the environment for as long as a year, and they only need a day of warmth and moisture to become ready to be infective. (Read as 'my chicks water spilled and I cleaned it up that night').

    There are about nine species. Once your birds get cocci in them and survive it (most commonly happens) without symptom, they are thereafter mostly resistant to that species (not the other species). So when people say "adult birds can't get it" well it's simply wrong. They certainly can get coccidiosis - just aren't as likely to get the one that is at their house to which they were exposed. [​IMG]

    Also remember - coccidiosis doesn't always present with bloody droppings - it can simply be diarrhea. Bloody droppings occur when the coccidiosis is strong enough to irritate the cecum, causing the bloody droppings. If you pick up a deceased chick and squeeze the lower intesting to express his droppings, sometimes you will only see the bloody droppings then. BUT you don't want to do a knee-jerk reaction and just kill-kill-kill cocci when you first see a tiny bit of diarrhea. Like the feed is designed to do, the ideal thing is to allow a slight infection with them, boost their gut bacteria to help prevent it getting worse, monitor things very closely (watching for development of the disease into any lethargy at which you'd treat, or any blood) and let them develop that immunity.

    It's like walking a tightrope honestly - even for old-timers. It's all about timing, instinct, knowledge of raising babies, and a lot of experience - and then we don't always get it right. [​IMG] I.e. don't beat yourself up if you don't know exactly what to do.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2009
  4. KatyTheChickenLady

    KatyTheChickenLady Bird of A Different Feather

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    got it, thank you for being so comprehensive! So I will discontinue feed with antibiotics (honestly I hadn't noticed it was in there) and contiue with on that has Amprolium or Sulmet . . . which is prefered in feed?
     
  5. threehorses

    threehorses Songster

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    You're welcome!

    Oh in the feed you'll only find Amprolium, not Sulmet. For treating active cases of coccidiosis (not just giving the stuff in the feed) you'd have a choice of Corid (amprolium) or Sulmet (a sulfa drug).

    So buy the Amprolium feed, and then buy a thing of Corid or Sulmet if you feel you must treat an actual illness of cocci.

    By the way, don't worry about the feed label. The term "medicated" is just a broad description and most people don't know the difference, or notice it if they knew the difference. I bet you the feedstore people didn't know.
     
  6. ohiofarmgirl

    ohiofarmgirl Songster

    Jan 22, 2009
    hey katylester

    how goes the fight?

    we lost one - i found her this morning i was sure she was doing better when i checked them last nite
    :-(
     
  7. KatyTheChickenLady

    KatyTheChickenLady Bird of A Different Feather

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    haven't lost any more here. Everyone looks much better this morning (day three of meds). One was looking rather peaked last night so I wrapped her in a towel and force fed her water with meds, she looks better this morning. I was advised to change the water every morning and replace with new med water . . . thought I would pass that along here.
    So sorry you lost one, how does everyone else look?
     
  8. ohiofarmgirl

    ohiofarmgirl Songster

    Jan 22, 2009
    thanks for the tip! we changed everyone's water this morning. we have one that is a little droopy - but i know that he had some of the medicated water yesterday. i'll watch him again and use your wrapped in a towel method if necessary.

    i was gone for most of mid-day (at the farmer's market - i even made money!) and my hubby reported at noon that everyone looked perky.

    someone else told me to feed them hard boiled eggs as the extra protein might help -- but thats contrary to what we read above. so we'll see.

    let me know how your littles are doing later
    :)
    ps isnt that threehorses something else! how lucky we are to have all this help!
     
  9. threehorses

    threehorses Songster

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    I don't really have anything productive to say today except I'm glad to hear that everyone's babies seem to be doing better today; that's a relief!

    On coccidiosis and eggs, some say the coccidiosis bloom because they love protein (and I have heard that, and do believe it's true). On the other hand, if they're being treated with a coccidiocide (not the coccidiostat only in their food) then if they're particularly weak, they might benefit from the protein.

    Safe bet is to do without, I'd think.

    Cheers to you both for taking good care of your babies. I'll be watching for more good updates, and thank you so much for the kind words!
     
  10. KatyTheChickenLady

    KatyTheChickenLady Bird of A Different Feather

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    I don't know, my one girl is still so pale. She looked perkier this mornng but was slower than the rest to come to dinner . . . but she did come and did eat. So I didn't force any of the med water on her . . . but I am now thinking I should have. We'll see in the morning. Everybody else's color is back to normal. Sheeeesh this is nerve wracking!!!
     

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