Cocci?

[Kelsie2290]

Good luck with the remaining chicks, hope they keep doing fine. I'd do what you are doing and just give them the amp if both it and the baytril are mixed in the water. As long as they are being medicated now the ones that feel fine should be fine, the sick ones will hopefully get better pretty fast, a day or two, but it may take the really sick ones a good week to act back to normal. Double check to be sure the really sick ones are drinking as they should be. The medicated water mixed with feed as Ten Chicks said is a good idea also.
Do be careful about cross contamination with your other chicks and chickens now, and even hatching eggs, since the oocysts are pretty darn tough.

 

[elliechooks]

Well I also think that proves it definitely is cocci, even if the vet didn't think so, the baytril made no difference but the amp stopped it in its tracks. All remaining chicks have made it through the night and are eating and drinking this morning.
Thanks everyone, they wouldn't have made it without this forum!

Now I'm worried about my eggs - due to hatch in a week, I was going to turn the heat down on these chicks and get them outside, quick clean out of the brooder ready for the newborns next weekend. Will these little guys be well enough to go outside without heat (weathers pretty good at the moment but after this set back - and there are less of them than there should be) and how do I ensure the brooder is disinfected and safe for the newborns? I was thinking a blowtorch (wooden box) - but maybe I should just build another brooder.....?

 

[Kelsie2290]

Hope the remaining chicks are still doing fine. I would keep these guys inside a little longer if you can, or make sure they have a way to keep warm outside, even if they are acting fine, they have had a pretty good test of their immune system and you don't want them to have another setback.
Bleach the heck out of the brooder box and anything and everything the chicks and their poop have come in contact with (feeders, waterers, perches, carriers), and that you came in contact with after you handled the chicks. If yo didn't have it before and if it is in the ground now, you will probably not be able to get rid of it now though and should always be prepared for chicks to have an outbreak. Definitely keep amp on hand for new chicks and watch them very closely.
Coccidia are pretty much everywhere in some areas and as long as you watch the chicks and treat them asap if you have an outbreak you should be OK. If you know you have it around then introducing them to dirt from your yard while they are still in the brooder is what a lot of people do to let their immune system slowly build up immunity to the strains you have... just toss a clump of grass in the brooder every day or so for them to gradually be exposed. You don't have medicated feed over there do you?
Another brooder is always a good idea, you can never have too many brooders can you

 

[elliechooks]

So I have bleached & scrubbed, scrubbed and bleached everything! new chicks hatching as I write this. The 7 that survived the cocci outbreak are outside (with extra heat at night) and are doing really well.
So now I have 2 questions. Firstly, my feed is not medicated (not sure if you can buy it medicated over here but mine certainly is not) so should I add a little amprolium to the water as a precaution? If so, how much?
Secondly, I have been trying to work out why these chicks were affected in the brooder in the house, when previous ones have always been ok, can rats carry cocci, even if they are not affected by it, maybe on their feet even? The only thing I can think of is that the brooder had been in use in the house for 3 batches of chicks then cleaned and stored in a outbuilding (which I know does sometimes have rats foraging in there - poison out, traps set etc!) before a quick clean up and bringing back in for this lot of chicks....
Anyway, they are recovering well and my next lot are hatching, onwards and upwards! (And I now have a spare bottle of amprolium just in case!)

 

[dawg53]

So I have bleached & scrubbed, scrubbed and bleached everything! new chicks hatching as I write this. The 7 that survived the cocci outbreak are outside (with extra heat at night) and are doing really well.
So now I have 2 questions. Firstly, my feed is not medicated (not sure if you can buy it medicated over here but mine certainly is not) so should I add a little amprolium to the water as a precaution? If so, how much?
Secondly, I have been trying to work out why these chicks were affected in the brooder in the house, when previous ones have always been ok, can rats carry cocci, even if they are not affected by it, maybe on their feet even? The only thing I can think of is that the brooder had been in use in the house for 3 batches of chicks then cleaned and stored in a outbuilding (which I know does sometimes have rats foraging in there - poison out, traps set etc!) before a quick clean up and bringing back in for this lot of chicks....
Anyway, they are recovering well and my next lot are hatching, onwards and upwards! (And I now have a spare bottle of amprolium just in case!)

Bleach has no effect on cocci, use ammonia. Continue with the feed you're using, add the amprolium to their water (or feed) per instructions as needed. Cocci protozoa are everywhere. Your chicks will eventually build resistance to the particular strains that are present on your property.

 

[casportpony]

We lost another earlier

The amprolium is into the water and all of the chicks have been drinking it.
I now have 3 that are just standing still looking sorry for themselves, make no effort to move if you touch them. The others are all acting normally - pecking at my hands inquisitively and squawking and flapping if I pick them up.
The baytril was also to be given in water so I think I will leave that for now, and give it after the amprolium treatment is finished, if they still seem ill. Thanks for your support everyone, hopefully we have turned the corner - I've certainly learned a lot!

Baytil should be given orally as most animals won't drink if it's in the water. Here is a post I did for Amprolium dosing:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/818879/corid-and-amprol-amprolium-dosing

-Kathy

 

[elliechooks]

Baytil should be given orally as most animals won't drink if it's in the water. Here is a post I did for Amprolium dosing:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/818879/corid-and-amprol-amprolium-dosing


-Kathy

Wow, thanks for that casportpony. However, if I remember rightly my amprolium is not the same concentation as yours in the USA, (and I will not be giving a gallon of water for 4 - 6 chicks! ) so I am going to have to do some more maths, but at a rough guess based on your post I should be giving about half the dosage of amprolium as a preventative.
Many thanks

 

[Kelsie2290]

http://www.countryfayre.co.uk/index.php?module=Pages&func=display&pageid=44
You do have a disinfectant over there specifically approved for it. Both high bleach and ammonia solutions are recommended to control it (not together obviously), but the best are ones made specifically for it. Ammonia is effective in killing the oocysts, but bleach seems to be better at disinfecting and getting into the cracks etc where organic stuff you can't reach has collected and getting it out. We have just always used bleach because it is easier, and cleaned / rinsed and rinsed again everything really well. To be really safe you should probably, bleach, then ammonia, then use a commercial disinfectant. But, coccidia is everywhere in the dirt / environment, so anything touching dirt or dust and getting in contact with something in contact with the chicks can bring it in, it can even (rarely) be carried by the wind. The idea is pretty much wanting to control over exposure too it long enough for the chicks to build up their own immunity to it since they will come in contact with it eventually. The clump of grass in the brooder idea is the way most people expose the chicks too it without overwhelming their immune system. The amp in the feed is to keep them from having an outbreak but still be able to develop immunity to it, but if their exposure is too high (or they are sick otherwise, or it is a really bad strain) they may still have an outbreak, then you have to go to higher concentrations of amp.
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/animaldrugsatfda/details.cfm?dn=013-149
Is the FDA page for dosing it. The feed we buy over here has up to 0.0125% amp in it.
520.100 Amprolium.
Specifications: Each milliliter of solution contains 96 milligrams (mg) amprolium (9.6 percent solution).
Conditions of use:
Chickens
Indications: For the treatment of coccidiosis.
Amount: Administer at the 0.012 percent level in drinking water as soon as coccidiosis is diagnosed and continue for 3 to 5 days (in severe outbreaks, give amprolium at the 0.024 percent level); continue with 0.006 percent amprolium-medicated water for an additional 1 to 2 weeks.
Limitations: Use as sole source of amprolium.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/818879/corid-and-amprol-amprolium-dosing
This is a page somebody put together with all the links on it.

 

[Michael Apple]

If you use a sulfa drug, sulfadimethoxine is much easier on the bird's system than sodium sulfamethazine. With bloody droppings, I would NOT use sulfas though. They can increase hemorrhaging in the intestinal tract. There must be an amprolium product available in your country.

 

[casportpony]

Wow, thanks for that casportpony. However, if I remember rightly my amprolium is not the same concentation as yours in the USA, (and I will not be giving a gallon of water for 4 - 6 chicks! ) so I am going to have to do some more maths, but at a rough guess based on your post I should be giving about half the dosage of amprolium as a preventative.
Many thanks

Good point... I thought I saw an amprolium product that was 25%, but since most of us here in the US and Canada use the 20% powder and the 9.6% solution, those were the data sheets I used. I should also mention that the per gallon assumes US gallon (128 fluid ounces).

-Kathy