Cochin breeding, genetics, and showing

[Black Cochin Bantams]

that would depend on the best typed bird you have available to you, and how long of a project you want it to be, to get the color back once you have type.

The man I know who did a good job of it used a Quality Mottled. A good Barred would be another good option. Below are 2 males of his breeding. I bought him out about probably 3+ years ago. Not an easy project but very rewarding. Do not attempt unless willing to cull at least 90% each year. If you want the mans name PM me for more information.

 

[ki4got]

Quote:
VERY nice Craig. my only fear on using mottled is that it might pop up in later generations, like Andy's had happen with his.

 

[Black Cochin Bantams]

VERY nice Craig. my only fear on using mottled is that it might pop up in later generations, like Andy's had happen with his.

Either they want type or they don't. Have to bring it in from somewhere. That is why I suggest that high % of culling is necessary. Also I specified quality birds. These used the Matt McCammon line to bring in the type

 

[AndyCap]

Either they want type or they don't. Have to bring it in from somewhere. That is why I suggest that high % of culling is necessary. Also I specified quality birds. These used the Matt McCammon line to bring in the type

You are definitely right about the culls. Luckily here mottled are very popular.

In all of my partridge test breeding so far i have had mottled from every cross i have done.

Partridge cock X white hens = Black mottled with yellow leakage (tried two different hens)
Partridge cock X Black hens = Black mottled (2 different hens)
Partridge cock X Partridge hens = Partridge and Partridge mottled. (2 Different Hens)

Seems at some point a lot of people here decided breeding mottled into any other colour was a good idea, maybe for type as Matt did. The problem is, i am getting mottled out of every colour i breed.

We do have very typey mottled birds here, maybe that is why it is so widespread, it is under both dominant and recessive white birds here. And all my black birds are split for it, interestingly my stock came from different people, so our birds really seem to be plagued\blessed with it. Either a good or bad thing depending on your goals.

 

[Black Cochin Bantams]

You are definitely right about the culls. Luckily here mottled are very popular.

In all of my partridge test breeding so far i have had mottled from every cross i have done.

Partridge cock X white hens = Black mottled with yellow leakage (tried two different hens)
Partridge cock X Black hens = Black mottled (2 different hens)
Partridge cock X Partridge hens = Partridge and Partridge mottled. (2 Different Hens)

Seems at some point a lot of people here decided breeding mottled into any other colour was a good idea, maybe for type as Matt did. The problem is, i am getting mottled out of every colour i breed.

We do have very typey mottled birds here, maybe that is why it is so widespread, it is under both dominant and recessive white birds here. And all my black birds are split for it, interestingly my stock came from different people, so our birds really seem to be plagued\blessed with it. Either a good or bad thing depending on your goals.

Sent you a PM. Hope it helps

 

[AndyCap]

Sent you a PM. Hope it helps

Thanks Craig it did. i am finally embarking on my Partridge breeding program now, it has taken me two years to identify all the hidden genes through test breeding.

Now, like Matt, i am using a mottled pullet for my first generation, she is very nicely typed. Should be a few generations till i get back to good partridge though, but at least i know everything i am putting into the mix in terms of genetics. We all have to start somewhere!

 

[mixed flock]

I have two black Cochin from the same hatching stock I hatched them myself and this year hatched off some of their babies most were black but I had a few come out like this....... any thoughts what caused this and what color these will be?

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[AndyCap]

I have two black Cochin from the same hatching stock I hatched them myself and this year hatched off some of their babies most were black but I had a few come out like this....... any thoughts what caused this and what color these will be?

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My guess would be Partridge.

Black is a colour that hides a lot of genes and patterns, my guess would be your black birds are actually split on the e-locus (E/eb).
In breeding these birds the genes would segregate and you would get both EE (black birds) and eb(partridge brown) based birds.

I have found an easy way to check for split E locus black birds is to look at the juvenile feathers and feet. My black birds that are split will often have much yellower shanks and feet then pure black birds, as well as some brown tips in the feathers early on. These get covered over as they grow and the bird appears pure black.

Cute little boy you have there though.

Here is a pic of what i mean, with a split black bird you often see this sort of leakage of colour into the juvenile feathers. See this little pullet. Look at the brown colour near the bottom. Did you notice anything like that when the parents were young?



Here is the same pullet a month later, as you can see, she appears to be a pure black bird. She is split for the partridge brown base though.

 

[mixed flock]

Andycap, yes the father still has brown in his neck feathers, so I believe you are correct. The blonde babies hatched with all yellow legs where as the black babies hatched with black legs. I also noticed some red color on some of the other roosters as they grew from my first batch. So if I wanted to make mottled or mille Fleur I could breed an all black with a partridge? Is this correct?
Thank you
Bridgette

 

[AndyCap]

Andycap, yes the father still has brown in his neck feathers, so I believe you are correct. The blonde babies hatched with all yellow legs where as the black babies hatched with black legs. I also noticed some red color on some of the other roosters as they grew from my first batch. So if I wanted to make mottled or mille Fleur I could breed an all black with a partridge? Is this correct?
Thank you
Bridgette

Hey Bridgette,

Mottled comes from breeding two birds together who contain the gene for mottling.

To give a basic run down of genes

Chickens generally contain gene pairs(2 copies of a gene), they can either be
pure for a gene( have 2 copies of the gene)
Split for it it (have 1 copy)
or contain none of it at all.

What you are seeing in your birds are split genes in the parents. These sometimes combine together in the offspring and give you strange results, like your yellow chicks.

Lets say that both parents contain one gene for "yellow" chicks, and one gene for "black" chicks. Sometimes they both pass on the "yellow" gene and you get yellow chicks, and sometimes they pass on the "black" gene and you get black chicks. (Or they get one of each, like your parent birds).

The reason your parent birds appear more black then yellow is that the black gene is dominant, and so it has a more powerful effect on the colour of the birds.


Having said that. Mottled cochins need to have two copies of the mottling gene. So you would start off with a bird that already has the mottling gene to get that gene into your future generations.

Mottling is a funny thing though, it is called a recessive gene, this means that mottled birds will need to be pure for the gene(have two copies). If a bird has one copy of a recessive gene like mottling, then chances are you wont see the effect of the gene.

The easiest way to spot mottling is to look at a bird, if it has the white spots all over it, then you are seeing the gene when it is pure. You can be certain that that bird has the mottling gene.

Mille Fleur is a whole lot more complicated, there are quite a large number of genes involved and people are still arguing about which ones are best. To make Mille Fluer it would be much easier to get eggs or birds from someone who has already begun this process to be honest.

I tried to make this easier to understand, but if you have any questions then do ask