Cochin Thread!!!

[lilcrow]

Really hoping I can get a little insight as these genes are all sorts of screwed up. I bred a project Mille Fleur Cochin bantam cockerel to a self-Red bantam Cochin hen. The resulting offspring are Wheaten, and I'm going to assume, carrying recessive Mottling.

I want to continue to Wheaten color as I like the color overall. It's very striking! Anyway, if I breed the male and female wheaten together, both having the background of Mille Fleur, would the Mille Fleur cause any issues with creating more of these Wheatens? I realize the Mottling will show up in the offspring for quite some time, but at first I will choose the typiest birds before the color birds.

Thanks for any insight!

I absolutely love the Wheaten color. It's not a recognized color in Cochins here in the US, but that certainly doesn't mean you shouldn't work in that direction. I'm sure I don't need to tell you that breeding a project is tough and takes a lot of patience. There are some forums that have members/contributors that are true genetics experts and you might want to present this question to one of them.
With what little bit I know, I would guess that you could breed the siblings and with high enough numbers you could get a few Wheaten. Of course you'll have a lot of junk that will need to be dealt with one way or another. I understand that type is preferred over color, but that is in the show hall. When you are breeding for a new variety, sometimes color must come first otherwise you'll make no progress at all, it's a sort of two steps forward and one back. I would also think that the Wheaten might be a bit easier to breed for since it's almost a solid color, certainly easier than the patterned varieties.

 

[Jharper]

Nope, Blacks are plentiful and extremely competitive. If you talk with a breeder of Blacks that are even reasonably good you should be able to get a very nice Black roo. Unfortunately, this bird almost looks like he could be a cross. He's pretty, but definitely not breeder or show quality for bantam Cochins. If we're talking LF it's a little different, but still not good enough for a show.

He's large fowl. He's probably hatchery stock. Thanks anyways!

 

[lilcrow]

He's large fowl. He's probably hatchery stock. Thanks anyways!

As a large fowl, he's not nearly as poor quality, but recently I've seen some absolutely gorgeous Blacks. Of course I wouldn't expect to see those birds running around in someone's backyard, but if your friend really wants to show, I'd suggest checking into some of those better quality birds and start with the best available.

 

[Jharper]

As a large fowl, he's not nearly as poor quality, but recently I've seen some absolutely gorgeous Blacks. Of course I wouldn't expect to see those birds running around in someone's backyard, but if your friend really wants to show, I'd suggest checking into some of those better quality birds and start with the best available.

Okay. Thanks!

 

[Jharper]

I believe she's enjoying her spot at Critter Day at the Ga. Museum of Agriculture. Haha!

 

[ki4got]

re: wheaten... most mille fleur are e^b with Columbian and mottling, some have melanizing too... red is e^Wh, plus Db, Co & mahogany...

you'd still have to breed in something that doesn't have Columbian and eliminate the e^b, mo, Co, Db & mahogany... and Ml too if present. easy enough on the dominant mutations, to select against them, since they have to be visible, if present. but the recessives would be harder to eliminate entirely.

I would actually suggest breeding a red to a brown-red (or birchen if necessary), then breed the f1 back to each other, selecting for the wheaten pattern.

I believe the birchen gene is dominant over wheaten, but you would know your wheaten offspring by the coloration of the hens and the presence of the wing trangle on the cockerels. (birchen doesn't have that wing triangle).

 

[Coopa Cabana]

re: wheaten... most mille fleur are e^b with Columbian and mottling, some have melanizing too... red is e^Wh, plus Db, Co & mahogany...

you'd still have to breed in something that doesn't have Columbian and eliminate the e^b, mo, Co, Db & mahogany... and Ml too if present. easy enough on the dominant mutations, to select against them, since they have to be visible, if present. but the recessives would be harder to eliminate entirely.

I would actually suggest breeding a red to a brown-red (or birchen if necessary), then breed the f1 back to each other, selecting for the wheaten pattern.

I believe the birchen gene is dominant over wheaten, but you would know your wheaten offspring by the coloration of the hens and the presence of the wing trangle on the cockerels. (birchen doesn't have that wing triangle).

Karen, can they work toward Wheaton by using Red x Buff, as both these varieties are based on eWh?

 

[ki4got]

Quote: yes, they are both eWh, but they are also both Mh... the only difference between red and buff is the dilute gene. at least so I've been told... so i'm hunting for a GOOD buff to use over the reds, and i'll cull the dilutes. those that have black in the feathers are lacking the Columbian gene partly (or wholly) which is where the black tailed red comes from. on wheaten, Db and Co work together to suppress all black pigmentation (on wheaten base) but just Db without Co, you get black tailed and minimal hackle striping which can be removed thru selective breeding.

you can also produce a black tailed red cock using eB (birchen) but the hens are called 'ginger' and don't resemble btr at all.

 

[joanie_maine]

I'm still bopping along here in Maine.

Raised lots of red bantams this year. Growing out columbians, buff columbians, black mottles, blacks and buffs to prepare for breeding and showing next year.

 

[lilcrow]

I'm still bopping along here in Maine.

Raised lots of red bantams this year. Growing out columbians, buff columbians, black mottles, blacks and buffs to prepare for breeding and showing next year.

Joanie, they're looking great. Love the wings on that first hen.