Cochin Thread!!!

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by Settler'sDreamFarm, Jun 7, 2009.

  1. Beth G.

    Beth G. Gaetano Family Farm

    Quote:Here's your medical explaination as to why it is the "Dam" line that is affecting the the feathering of this bird:\\

    Progressive cytologic changes during the development of delayed feather amelanosis and associated choroidal defects in the DAM chicken line. Newly hatched chicks of the delayed amelanotic (DAM) line have phenotypically normal down pigmentation. Functioning pigment cells are present in the down plumage, choroid, and retinal pigment epithelium. However, histologic and ultrastructural studies reveal that after hatching regenerating feather melanocytes synthesize melanosomes with abnormal, irregularly shaped surfaces and pigmented extensions. Eventually retraction of melanocytic dendrites and clumping of pigment occurs concomitantly with intracellular compartmentalization of the abnormal melanosomes. Melanocyte degeneration is accompanied by the appearance of mononuclear leukocytes (MNLs) in the pulp of the regenerating feathers. Concurrently, melanocytes cease to migrate into the regenerating feather epithelium, and the result is amelanosis. Changes in choroidal melanocytes are first evident as swelling of cell bodies and associated dendrites. Ultrastructurally, the choroidal melanocytes demonstrate increased cytoplasmic material, melanosomal irregularities, retraction of dendrites, melanosome compartmentalization, and eventual necrosis. Concurrently, MNLs arrive and remove the pigment from the choroid. The authors conclude that a basic melanocyte defect precedes the arrival of immunocytes in the delayed cutaneous and choroidal amelanosis in the genetic DAM vitiligo model of the chicken.

    ***Copy and Pasted from my friends email***

    Can't say I understand his email b/c you need a medical degree to understand it but, I figured I would share it will you since you asked.
     
  2. tiki244

    tiki244 Flock Mistress

    8,792
    35
    308
    Jan 1, 2008
    WestCentralWisconsin
    Quote:She is cute zil I know what you mean about the tude. I have a silkie named Sassy for that reason. Just does what she wants and is really an independent thinker. Then she had a baby and her baby is named Princess. Same thing with the attitude. [​IMG]
     
  3. wildwoodcochins

    wildwoodcochins Chillin' With My Peeps

    Beth G. :

    Quote:Here's your medical explaination as to why it is the "Dam" line that is affecting the the feathering of this bird:\\

    Progressive cytologic changes during the development of delayed feather amelanosis and associated choroidal defects in the DAM chicken line. Newly hatched chicks of the delayed amelanotic (DAM) line have phenotypically normal down pigmentation. Functioning pigment cells are present in the down plumage, choroid, and retinal pigment epithelium. However, histologic and ultrastructural studies reveal that after hatching regenerating feather melanocytes synthesize melanosomes with abnormal, irregularly shaped surfaces and pigmented extensions. Eventually retraction of melanocytic dendrites and clumping of pigment occurs concomitantly with intracellular compartmentalization of the abnormal melanosomes. Melanocyte degeneration is accompanied by the appearance of mononuclear leukocytes (MNLs) in the pulp of the regenerating feathers. Concurrently, melanocytes cease to migrate into the regenerating feather epithelium, and the result is amelanosis. Changes in choroidal melanocytes are first evident as swelling of cell bodies and associated dendrites. Ultrastructurally, the choroidal melanocytes demonstrate increased cytoplasmic material, melanosomal irregularities, retraction of dendrites, melanosome compartmentalization, and eventual necrosis. Concurrently, MNLs arrive and remove the pigment from the choroid. The authors conclude that a basic melanocyte defect precedes the arrival of immunocytes in the delayed cutaneous and choroidal amelanosis in the genetic DAM vitiligo model of the chicken.

    ***Copy and Pasted from my friends email***

    Can't say I understand his email b/c you need a medical degree to understand it but, I figured I would share it will you since you asked.

    I'm lost [​IMG] it's all greek to me at this point. I just don't know what to do with my hen now, should I remove her from the rest of my flock? I have no idea where to get her tested. She's always been a very healthy hen, she's beautiful and so sweet, has been my favorite hen so much that she's the only one I ended up keeping from all the birds I ever started out with.
    It's very heartbreaking to me, I feel pretty down about this situation. I work so hard for my birds and do everything I can for them to have happy, healthy lives. When something like this happens, it's pretty hard to swallow. Thank you for all your information from your friend. At least I know now not to breed her anymore.​
     
  4. Beth G.

    Beth G. Gaetano Family Farm

    Like the other person said this is information only. You have no way of really know except if you study the Dam's feathering you can see pointiness to them. That would have been the only detection.

    Also, in reality you have no way of knowing if a bird in your flock has it without doing the blood test. If you free range your cochins meaning the are not kept in a controlled enviroment, 70% of free ranging birds have or have contracted in their genetic M.G. and like humans the viral and bacterial infections affect poultry and humans differently.

    If you can not have her tested then there is no way to really know for sure. If she has been with the flock this whole time there is no point and removing her b/c she has already exposed them.

    If it were my hen I would probably keep her but, not breed her knowing her offsring will have DQ's in their feathering and you could be potentially putting other flocks at risk if she is a carrier. So, your state doesn't have a state tester? That stinks if they don't [​IMG]
    Quote:Here's your medical explaination as to why it is the "Dam" line that is affecting the the feathering of this bird:\\

    Progressive cytologic changes during the development of delayed feather amelanosis and associated choroidal defects in the DAM chicken line. Newly hatched chicks of the delayed amelanotic (DAM) line have phenotypically normal down pigmentation. Functioning pigment cells are present in the down plumage, choroid, and retinal pigment epithelium. However, histologic and ultrastructural studies reveal that after hatching regenerating feather melanocytes synthesize melanosomes with abnormal, irregularly shaped surfaces and pigmented extensions. Eventually retraction of melanocytic dendrites and clumping of pigment occurs concomitantly with intracellular compartmentalization of the abnormal melanosomes. Melanocyte degeneration is accompanied by the appearance of mononuclear leukocytes (MNLs) in the pulp of the regenerating feathers. Concurrently, melanocytes cease to migrate into the regenerating feather epithelium, and the result is amelanosis. Changes in choroidal melanocytes are first evident as swelling of cell bodies and associated dendrites. Ultrastructurally, the choroidal melanocytes demonstrate increased cytoplasmic material, melanosomal irregularities, retraction of dendrites, melanosome compartmentalization, and eventual necrosis. Concurrently, MNLs arrive and remove the pigment from the choroid. The authors conclude that a basic melanocyte defect precedes the arrival of immunocytes in the delayed cutaneous and choroidal amelanosis in the genetic DAM vitiligo model of the chicken.

    ***Copy and Pasted from my friends email***

    Can't say I understand his email b/c you need a medical degree to understand it but, I figured I would share it will you since you asked.

    I'm lost [​IMG] it's all greek to me at this point. I just don't know what to do with my hen now, should I remove her from the rest of my flock? I have no idea where to get her tested. She's always been a very healthy hen, she's beautiful and so sweet, has been my favorite hen so much that she's the only one I ended up keeping from all the birds I ever started out with.
    It's very heartbreaking to me, I feel pretty down about this situation. I work so hard for my birds and do everything I can for them to have happy, healthy lives. When something like this happens, it's pretty hard to swallow. Thank you for all your information from your friend. At least I know now not to breed her anymore.
     
  5. wildwoodcochins

    wildwoodcochins Chillin' With My Peeps

    Quote:Okay, so I've tried to find information Mycoplasma gallisepticum. From everything I am finding; this seems to be a bacterial disease, not a gentetic disease. I have raised several chicks from this hen, all have been absolutely beautiful and healthy. All my birds are kept in a clean, healthy enviroment. I work very hard to raise excellent quality birds, have spent a ton of money to make my breeding program as top notch as I can.
    I am questioning as to how it is only the dam that can pass on this disease? Also, nothing I have found on the internet mentions the odd feathering.
    Does anyone else have any ideas on what the problem might be with this hen? I have never seen anything like it and now I feel terrible that I have bred this bird. The hen has always been in perfect health, is perfectly feathered, has had several beautiful babies that have always been normal. All my eggs are incubated, not set under a broody hen.
    I would never sell anyone a chick that I felt was not healthy or abnormal in any way~ Also; I have had the hen since she was just a few months old, she has never been sick in ANY way. She is just a year and a half now.

    Twyla, please don't feel bad about this, it's not your fault and nothing that you've done deliberately or neglectfully. I find the discussion fascinating mainly because I've had problems with birds that I wondered about in this way, i.e., genetic problems resulting from disease or vise versa. I was the person that ended up putting down the hen that Mandy was talking about. I did everything I knew to do, talked to all of the people I could think to talk to, and this poor hen did nothing but get progressively and increasingly ill. Strangely enough, sick as she was, every time she became sick I expected someone else to fall ill also. I was afraid that even the limited exposure to the flock before I could isolate her might cause another bird to contract what she had, but she never passed her "disease" on to anyone. I know the breeder that Mandy got the bird from and he is a very good breeder, very well respected and I don't hold him "responsible" for selling a sick or poorly bird. She was perfectly fine when Mandy received her and for quite a long time after that, really she didn't begin to get chronic with her illness until she came to live with me, so I did sort of blame myself for a short time. However, my other birds were and are far to healthy for me to hold on to that for any period of time.
    I feel uncomfortable leaving things hanging with you like this, because if I were in your position I would be feeling the same way and experiencing all kinds of self doubt, etc. So again I want to say don't make yourself sick over this, I'm not concerned about selling my birds to you, and I wouldn't hesitate to look to you for a bird if I needed one.
    It would be interesting, if you can find someone to do the testing that Beth's friend is suggesting, to get that done, but if you can't find a place to do it, I wonder if you could draw any conclusions about the problem, by doing some test breedings? Sure would like to hear from Craig and Tom on this, maybe it should have been moved over to the genetics thread.

    Thanks Nancy~ I really appreciate your words of encouragement. I jus don't know how to handle the situation now. Sometimes these bumps in the road are pretty big, makes me feel like just saying forget it but then I go out and visit with the birds and watch them for a little while and I know that I just couldn't give them up.
     
  6. wildwoodcochins

    wildwoodcochins Chillin' With My Peeps

    Beth G. :

    Like the other person said this is information only. You have no way of really know except if you study the Dam's feathering you can see pointiness to them. That would have been the only detection.

    Also, in reality you have no way of knowing if a bird in your flock has it without doing the blood test. If you free range your cochins meaning the are not kept in a controlled enviroment, 70% of free ranging birds have or have contracted in their genetic M.G. and like humans the viral and bacterial infections affect poultry and humans differently.

    If you can not have her tested then there is no way to really know for sure. If she has been with the flock this whole time there is no point and removing her b/c she has already exposed them.

    If it were my hen I would probably keep her but, not breed her knowing her offsring will have DQ's in their feathering and you could be potentially putting other flocks at risk if she is a carrier. So, your state doesn't have a state tester? That stinks if they don't [​IMG]
    Quote:I'm lost [​IMG] it's all greek to me at this point. I just don't know what to do with my hen now, should I remove her from the rest of my flock? I have no idea where to get her tested. She's always been a very healthy hen, she's beautiful and so sweet, has been my favorite hen so much that she's the only one I ended up keeping from all the birds I ever started out with.
    It's very heartbreaking to me, I feel pretty down about this situation. I work so hard for my birds and do everything I can for them to have happy, healthy lives. When something like this happens, it's pretty hard to swallow. Thank you for all your information from your friend. At least I know now not to breed her anymore.

    I don't know if we have a state tester or not, I am trying to get in contact with my friend who would know better what to do in this situation. My chickens are not free range, all breeds are kept seperate in their own pens but the outside pens are seperated only by chicken wire.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2011
  7. Beth G.

    Beth G. Gaetano Family Farm

    Quote:The exposure is still possible b/c they are outside. I would call the Your State Dept of Ag. Also, if you go to the NPIP official website they list state by state who to contact for the program and I mention this only b/c that is most likely the person in your state to give you the best information as to who the proper person is to contact for blood sample testing. Remember this is not a Salmonella Pullorum test and sometimes testers are only authorized to do that test only. Make sure you tell ther person you are looking to do blood sample testing for like Avian Influenza and M.G.

    Good Luck
     
  8. wildwoodcochins

    wildwoodcochins Chillin' With My Peeps

    Beth G. :

    Quote:The exposure is still possible b/c they are outside. I would call the Your State Dept of Ag. Also, if you go to the NPIP official website they list state by state who to contact for the program and I mention this only b/c that is most likely the person in your state to give you the best information as to who the proper person is to contact for blood sample testing. Remember this is not a Salmonella Pullorum test and sometimes testers are only authorized to do that test only. Make sure you tell ther person you are looking to do blood sample testing for like Avian Influenza and M.G.

    Good Luck

    Thanks for your help. I guess I am looking at the whole situation right now, eggs that were in the incubator with this hen's eggs, babies that were raised together, birds I've sold that were exposed possibly, ALL the birds in my coop. I'm absolutely in shock and fear right now for the future of my birds.​
     
  9. thecochincoop

    thecochincoop Chillin' With My Peeps

    Quote:The exposure is still possible b/c they are outside. I would call the Your State Dept of Ag. Also, if you go to the NPIP official website they list state by state who to contact for the program and I mention this only b/c that is most likely the person in your state to give you the best information as to who the proper person is to contact for blood sample testing. Remember this is not a Salmonella Pullorum test and sometimes testers are only authorized to do that test only. Make sure you tell ther person you are looking to do blood sample testing for like Avian Influenza and M.G.

    Good Luck

    Thanks for your help. I guess I am looking at the whole situation right now, eggs that were in the incubator with this hen's eggs, babies that were raised together, birds I've sold that were exposed possibly, ALL the birds in my coop. I'm absolutely in shock and fear right now for the future of my birds.

    I think you may be taking it out too hard on yourself. Poultry disease is spread SOOO easily that it's nearly impossible to keep them away from everything. There are people that if they show a bird, it does not go back home and I think that's the only way to be safe but there are still your clothes and shoes that have to be disinfected. All that has to happen outside is for a wild bird to let droppings into your pen and it's contaminated, I think some things even go in the air. Feed stores are a source of contamination. With all these germy places and everything it's almost impossible to keep your birds away from any germs or bacteria. I think the benefit of my birds being able to free range outweighs the risks of being outside. Yes they will catch illness but we just need to know how to treat it. Coccidiosis is one of the worst but it can be kept under control fairly easily. I was scared of all the risks of contagion but it's just something that you have to live with when you have birds. Best thing to do is keep your flock mite free and healthy and watch closely for any sign of ill ness. I would say for your thin feathered hen to find her a pet home and just keep her out of any breeding programs
     
  10. Mr. Ree

    Mr. Ree Chillin' With My Peeps

    1,067
    14
    191
    Feb 7, 2007
    South Central, KY
    Quote:
    I don't know if we have a state tester or not, I am trying to get in contact with my friend who would know better what to do in this situation. My chickens are not free range, all breeds are kept seperate in their own pens but the outside pens are seperated only by chicken wire.

    Every state has a tester for birds. The same people who test birds before a show will be the same people who test your birds for this. As stated, all you have to do is call you State Ag Dept and they should be able to help you out. I do not get my birds tested at shows, I always call the tester out to my house and have each and every one done then. That way I dont have certain birds tested and certain ones not. Even if I have birds that I dont intend to show, I always have them tested as well. If nothing else, post in the "Indiana" thread and ask your neighbors if they could help you out with this.

    And you dont need to beat yourself up over this. You cant expect to raise chickens and never have a bird get sick or never have any kind of problem. Thats just the way it is sometimes, you cant protect them from everything. And some things its important for tem to be exposed to, so their immune systems can get strong enough to do the job it needs. And as far as showing, you never know what you will bring back from a show. I know of breeders who have put the best birds they had down because they contracted something from a show. It doesnt mean that you arent a good breeder. Birds get stressed easily and when they get stressed (as in most animals) their immune system isnt performing top notch. So when your washing your birds, drying them, packing them up, being in an odd place all day, being packed back up before returning home. They can stressed pretty easy by these thigs. Thats why I quarntine birds for 2 weeks after a show just to be safe. It would be ideal to wash them after, but I dont have the time for that. And just as stated before, your clothes and shoes can carry things hopme as well. And most people dont expect that your car can do the same. EVERY time I go to a show, wether I am showing birds or just attending for fun, before and after the show I always take the car through the car wash. Just dont beat yourself up over something you had absolutely no control over. It could happen to anyone else with birds just the same.


    ~Casey
     

BackYard Chickens is proudly sponsored by