Cochin Thread!!!

[rnorris1234]

Introducing The Pre-Raphaelite Chickenhood:
"Dante Gabriel Rossetti" Black Cockrel
"Lizzie Siddal" Blue pullet
"Millais-an-egg" (Mih-lay-an-egg) blue mottled pullet
they are all about 4 months old.
(The Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood was a group of artists in Britain- 19th Cent. - some of my favorite artists.)

 

[iajewel]

Im looking to improve the size of my blue cochins. Does anyone have eggs from birds with good feathering and type, but also excel in size? Im interested in eggs.. Oh.. Blue, black, splash or whites only.. Thanks.

 

[Coopa Cabana]

Quote:
Good info. Thank You! I don't have SPs (yet) ha!, I was ONLY going to have Mille Fleurs...........

Same here, but I really like the SP. Actually considered bantam dark brahmas, but then figured if I can get it in Cochin (and let's face it, there isn't much you can't get in Cochin

) why not?
I have another question, though. I was looking at Ideal's SP bantams and there is a note that says something about needing a double breeding to get good color. Any ideas what that means?
~Terry

ETA: The site actually says "This breed requires double mating to produce quality males & females" Any ideas???
Any non-hatchery sources of these birds out there?

Double Mating is used primarily for patterned birds where the males and females have different plumage patterns. I asked around a lot when I got my GL's last year - I didn't find many that were still practicing the method, but I'm sure many probably still are. Because the M/F patterns are different, basically you should have separate preeding programs - one for breeding the best males possible, and one for breeding the best females possilbe. You can read more in detail below.

I would also be very interested in a more in-depth discussion on this, and would like to hear from anyone who practices it.

WHAT IS SINGLE MATING? The A.B.C. of Breeding Poultry for Exhibition, Egg-Production and Table Purposes

1919
In certain breeds the standard decrees that the characteristics
of the male and female should be different, which necessitates
double-mating, explained below. Where the standard for the
two sexes is practically the same, then single mating is sufficient.
By single mating I mean the breeding of both sexes as exhibition
specimens from one mating or single pen of birds.

WHAT IS DOUBLE MATING? The A.B.C. of Breeding Poultry for Exhibition, Egg-Production and Table Purposes

1919
Double-mating means the mating of two pens, one to produce
exhibition cockerels and the other exhibition pullets. This process
of breeding has done much to spoil many good old breeds, for
few little men have accommodation sufficient to keep two pens.
Many poultry fanciers give this double-mating question some
hard knocks, but we have only the Club Standards to blame. When
a new breed comes into being, the first desire of the faddists is to
draw up a standard that is hard to breed to. They contend that
it is better to have a breed that is difficult to obtain high-class
specimens of, than where we can easily breed winners. As things
are at present, double-mating is necessary in many breeds, and
I leave it at that.
In the case of laced varieties, such as the beautiful Gold and
Silver Laced Wyandottes, we have perforce to adopt the double mating
principles. If we mated the Palace winning Cock to the
Palace winning Pullet we should breed birds that were of very
inferior quality. By fitting up a cockerel-breeding pen and a pullet breeding
pen our chances are excellent. In the cockerel-breeding
pen of any variety the male will be a tip-top show specimen and
his mates females that are not show birds, but merely breeders
likely to throw high-class cockerels when mated to the exhibition
male. The pullets from this mating will, of course, be " duds”
and not fit for show purposes. The females in the pullet-breeding
pen will all be first-class exhibition birds and the male not a show
bird, but a breeder most likely to breed tip-top exhibition pullets.
The cockerels from this mating will be " duds " and unfit for the
show bench. The whole modus operandi can be thinned down to
this :—The cockerel-breeding male must possess all the necessary
characteristics to breed exhibition cockerels, whilst the pullet breeding
male must boast of those characteristics that will go to
breed exhibition pullets. The system is not so complicated as it
would appear at first sight and is interesting to follow out, but there
must, of course, be many " wasters " in the progeny—whether
male or female respectively. In many cases fanciers are satisfied
with breeding one sex only and winning honors with same. They
specialize in pullets or cockerels, keeping the pullet-breeders or
cockerel-breeders only as the case may be. This naturally does
not entail so much work as would be necessary if the two sorts
were bred.

 

[NottinghamChicks]

Hi rnorris1234, I love your new trio. Cute names and thanks for filling me in on your referance. I cannot wait to get mine shipped out to me at the end of March. I have Black, Buff, and Splash coming. They are an amazing bird I can see why this thread is so busy

 

[serendipityfarm]

Quote:
Same here, but I really like the SP. Actually considered bantam dark brahmas, but then figured if I can get it in Cochin (and let's face it, there isn't much you can't get in Cochin

) why not?
I have another question, though. I was looking at Ideal's SP bantams and there is a note that says something about needing a double breeding to get good color. Any ideas what that means?
~Terry

ETA: The site actually says "This breed requires double mating to produce quality males & females" Any ideas???
Any non-hatchery sources of these birds out there?

Double Mating is used primarily for patterned birds where the males and females have different plumage patterns. I asked around a lot when I got my GL's last year - I didn't find many that were still practicing the method, but I'm sure many probably still are. Because the M/F patterns are different, basically you should have separate preeding programs - one for breeding the best males possible, and one for breeding the best females possilbe. You can read more in detail below.

I would also be very interested in a more in-depth discussion on this, and would like to hear from anyone who practices it.

WHAT IS SINGLE MATING? The A.B.C. of Breeding Poultry for Exhibition, Egg-Production and Table Purposes

1919
In certain breeds the standard decrees that the characteristics
of the male and female should be different, which necessitates
double-mating, explained below. Where the standard for the
two sexes is practically the same, then single mating is sufficient.
By single mating I mean the breeding of both sexes as exhibition
specimens from one mating or single pen of birds.

WHAT IS DOUBLE MATING? The A.B.C. of Breeding Poultry for Exhibition, Egg-Production and Table Purposes

1919
Double-mating means the mating of two pens, one to produce
exhibition cockerels and the other exhibition pullets. This process
of breeding has done much to spoil many good old breeds, for
few little men have accommodation sufficient to keep two pens.
Many poultry fanciers give this double-mating question some
hard knocks, but we have only the Club Standards to blame. When
a new breed comes into being, the first desire of the faddists is to
draw up a standard that is hard to breed to. They contend that
it is better to have a breed that is difficult to obtain high-class
specimens of, than where we can easily breed winners. As things
are at present, double-mating is necessary in many breeds, and
I leave it at that.
In the case of laced varieties, such as the beautiful Gold and
Silver Laced Wyandottes, we have perforce to adopt the double mating
principles. If we mated the Palace winning Cock to the
Palace winning Pullet we should breed birds that were of very
inferior quality. By fitting up a cockerel-breeding pen and a pullet breeding
pen our chances are excellent. In the cockerel-breeding
pen of any variety the male will be a tip-top show specimen and
his mates females that are not show birds, but merely breeders
likely to throw high-class cockerels when mated to the exhibition
male. The pullets from this mating will, of course, be " duds”
and not fit for show purposes. The females in the pullet-breeding
pen will all be first-class exhibition birds and the male not a show
bird, but a breeder most likely to breed tip-top exhibition pullets.
The cockerels from this mating will be " duds " and unfit for the
show bench. The whole modus operandi can be thinned down to
this :—The cockerel-breeding male must possess all the necessary
characteristics to breed exhibition cockerels, whilst the pullet breeding
male must boast of those characteristics that will go to
breed exhibition pullets. The system is not so complicated as it
would appear at first sight and is interesting to follow out, but there
must, of course, be many " wasters " in the progeny—whether
male or female respectively. In many cases fanciers are satisfied
with breeding one sex only and winning honors with same. They
specialize in pullets or cockerels, keeping the pullet-breeders or
cockerel-breeders only as the case may be. This naturally does
not entail so much work as would be necessary if the two sorts
were bred.

WOW! Thanks Coopa!
I am rethinking getting into these... or maybe I can just see whether the birds I can eventually acquire tend towards better males or females and stick with one or the other... Actually it's not certain I'd even be showing them, so maybe I will just try & see.

 

[Coopa Cabana]

Terry~It kind of makes me wonder about the quality of the plumage you would get from a hatchery - do you think Ideal is practicing what they preach (i.e. double-mating)?
If you go over to the Cochins International website, I think you'd have a much better chance of getting some quality SP's to start with from private breeders.
It seems, with the patterned birds, you have to focus more on pair/trio matings rather than pen/flock matings. I think that's the only way you can really tell which birds are throwing the offspring you want. It just goes against everything common sense tells us - that breeding the best M/F together will produce the best offspring.
It is all still very confusing to me. With my GL's, I held back 1M/2F from last year, in addition to my original pair. The cockerel looks almost exactly like his sire (and also has the same perfect, sweet disposition!) With the 2 pullets I held back, one is definitely better than her mother, and one is worse. The lesser I will most probably not use at all, and hopefully rehome. So I'm going to cross the young cockerel back on his mom, and the pullet back on her sire, and see where that gets me.
I'm happy with my males, but the females lacing definitely needs improvement. So after this season, if I don't see any improvement, then I'm going to have to look at out-crossing with another variety to improve the lacing.
I just don't like the prospect of having to outcross, because I'm definitely not that experienced or knowledgeable a breeder, nor do I have the set-up for mass-quantity hatching.

But I have to tell you - if I could have a whole flock of GL roos (yes - I said roos!!) like the two I have, I'd be a happy camper. Not only are they beautiful, but they both have the absolute sweetest, friendliest dispositions of all the birds I've every had put together.
~Gail

 

[mjgigax]

Quote:
Nice names, I taught Art history for years.

 

[mjgigax]

Quote:
Same here, but I really like the SP. Actually considered bantam dark brahmas, but then figured if I can get it in Cochin (and let's face it, there isn't much you can't get in Cochin

) why not?
I have another question, though. I was looking at Ideal's SP bantams and there is a note that says something about needing a double breeding to get good color. Any ideas what that means?
~Terry

ETA: The site actually says "This breed requires double mating to produce quality males & females" Any ideas???
Any non-hatchery sources of these birds out there?

Double Mating is used primarily for patterned birds where the males and females have different plumage patterns. I asked around a lot when I got my GL's last year - I didn't find many that were still practicing the method, but I'm sure many probably still are. Because the M/F patterns are different, basically you should have separate preeding programs - one for breeding the best males possible, and one for breeding the best females possilbe. You can read more in detail below.

I would also be very interested in a more in-depth discussion on this, and would like to hear from anyone who practices it.

WHAT IS SINGLE MATING? The A.B.C. of Breeding Poultry for Exhibition, Egg-Production and Table Purposes

1919
In certain breeds the standard decrees that the characteristics
of the male and female should be different, which necessitates
double-mating, explained below. Where the standard for the
two sexes is practically the same, then single mating is sufficient.
By single mating I mean the breeding of both sexes as exhibition
specimens from one mating or single pen of birds.

WHAT IS DOUBLE MATING? The A.B.C. of Breeding Poultry for Exhibition, Egg-Production and Table Purposes

1919
Double-mating means the mating of two pens, one to produce
exhibition cockerels and the other exhibition pullets. This process
of breeding has done much to spoil many good old breeds, for
few little men have accommodation sufficient to keep two pens.
Many poultry fanciers give this double-mating question some
hard knocks, but we have only the Club Standards to blame. When
a new breed comes into being, the first desire of the faddists is to
draw up a standard that is hard to breed to. They contend that
it is better to have a breed that is difficult to obtain high-class
specimens of, than where we can easily breed winners. As things
are at present, double-mating is necessary in many breeds, and
I leave it at that.
In the case of laced varieties, such as the beautiful Gold and
Silver Laced Wyandottes, we have perforce to adopt the double mating
principles. If we mated the Palace winning Cock to the
Palace winning Pullet we should breed birds that were of very
inferior quality. By fitting up a cockerel-breeding pen and a pullet breeding
pen our chances are excellent. In the cockerel-breeding
pen of any variety the male will be a tip-top show specimen and
his mates females that are not show birds, but merely breeders
likely to throw high-class cockerels when mated to the exhibition
male. The pullets from this mating will, of course, be " duds”
and not fit for show purposes. The females in the pullet-breeding
pen will all be first-class exhibition birds and the male not a show
bird, but a breeder most likely to breed tip-top exhibition pullets.
The cockerels from this mating will be " duds " and unfit for the
show bench. The whole modus operandi can be thinned down to
this :—The cockerel-breeding male must possess all the necessary
characteristics to breed exhibition cockerels, whilst the pullet breeding
male must boast of those characteristics that will go to
breed exhibition pullets. The system is not so complicated as it
would appear at first sight and is interesting to follow out, but there
must, of course, be many " wasters " in the progeny—whether
male or female respectively. In many cases fanciers are satisfied
with breeding one sex only and winning honors with same. They
specialize in pullets or cockerels, keeping the pullet-breeders or
cockerel-breeders only as the case may be. This naturally does
not entail so much work as would be necessary if the two sorts
were bred.

I have a trio of Partridge Cochins. Male and female partridges are so different. Does anyone know if breeders use double breeding for them?

 

[Coopa Cabana]

Quote:
Double Mating is used primarily for patterned birds where the males and females have different plumage patterns. I asked around a lot when I got my GL's last year - I didn't find many that were still practicing the method, but I'm sure many probably still are. Because the M/F patterns are different, basically you should have separate preeding programs - one for breeding the best males possible, and one for breeding the best females possilbe. You can read more in detail below.

I would also be very interested in a more in-depth discussion on this, and would like to hear from anyone who practices it.

WHAT IS SINGLE MATING? The A.B.C. of Breeding Poultry for Exhibition, Egg-Production and Table Purposes

1919
In certain breeds the standard decrees that the characteristics
of the male and female should be different, which necessitates
double-mating, explained below. Where the standard for the
two sexes is practically the same, then single mating is sufficient.
By single mating I mean the breeding of both sexes as exhibition
specimens from one mating or single pen of birds.

WHAT IS DOUBLE MATING? The A.B.C. of Breeding Poultry for Exhibition, Egg-Production and Table Purposes

1919
Double-mating means the mating of two pens, one to produce
exhibition cockerels and the other exhibition pullets. This process
of breeding has done much to spoil many good old breeds, for
few little men have accommodation sufficient to keep two pens.
Many poultry fanciers give this double-mating question some
hard knocks, but we have only the Club Standards to blame. When
a new breed comes into being, the first desire of the faddists is to
draw up a standard that is hard to breed to. They contend that
it is better to have a breed that is difficult to obtain high-class
specimens of, than where we can easily breed winners. As things
are at present, double-mating is necessary in many breeds, and
I leave it at that.
In the case of laced varieties, such as the beautiful Gold and
Silver Laced Wyandottes, we have perforce to adopt the double mating
principles. If we mated the Palace winning Cock to the
Palace winning Pullet we should breed birds that were of very
inferior quality. By fitting up a cockerel-breeding pen and a pullet breeding
pen our chances are excellent. In the cockerel-breeding
pen of any variety the male will be a tip-top show specimen and
his mates females that are not show birds, but merely breeders
likely to throw high-class cockerels when mated to the exhibition
male. The pullets from this mating will, of course, be " duds”
and not fit for show purposes. The females in the pullet-breeding
pen will all be first-class exhibition birds and the male not a show
bird, but a breeder most likely to breed tip-top exhibition pullets.
The cockerels from this mating will be " duds " and unfit for the
show bench. The whole modus operandi can be thinned down to
this :—The cockerel-breeding male must possess all the necessary
characteristics to breed exhibition cockerels, whilst the pullet breeding
male must boast of those characteristics that will go to
breed exhibition pullets. The system is not so complicated as it
would appear at first sight and is interesting to follow out, but there
must, of course, be many " wasters " in the progeny—whether
male or female respectively. In many cases fanciers are satisfied
with breeding one sex only and winning honors with same. They
specialize in pullets or cockerels, keeping the pullet-breeders or
cockerel-breeders only as the case may be. This naturally does
not entail so much work as would be necessary if the two sorts
were bred.

I have a trio of Partridge Cochins. Male and female partridges are so different. Does anyone know if breeders use double breeding for them?

If you can find this book, it is excellent! Even though it is very old.
http://cgi.ebay.com/bantams-cochin-...0085528849?pt=Non_Fiction&hash=item5ad2e8cd11
I was able to find someone here on BYC that has a copy to sell. You used to be able to get them from the ABA, but they don't have them any more. Sometimes a poultry supplier will have it in their book section.
It has an excellent section specifically on Partridge. The entire book is a series of articles written by different breeders of their day. Regarding the Partridge, it discusses the ways to achieve the best results via both single and double matings - different breeders advocating different methods.

I have a scanner on my copier - maybe I can play around with it tomorrow when I'm more awake, and see if I can get the pages reposted here. But the print in the book is not so great - I'll see what I can do. If I can scan it, I can certainly make copies of the pages and mail them to you if you'd like.

 

[Coopa Cabana]

Quote:
Nice names, I taught Art history for years.

MJ - You taught Art History? You may be just the person I need to speak with. I've have tried in vain for the past couple of years to find the artist of my Avatar. I know it dates to at least 1910 - as I found it on a 1910 postcard. In addition to my chickens, I also collect artwork of Victorian women, so of course it was love at first sight when I saw the print. I've even had coasters made! But what I really want is to find a large original print or lithograph - but first I need to find out who the artist is. Any help you could offer would be greatly appreciated! ~Gail