Color genetics thread.

[malndobe]

Does anyone know what color the jubilee x red would make??

Not sure about red but I purchased a number of Jubilee X Buff Orp crosses as chicks and all of them ended up Buff. Most had some white tips on their feathers as youngsters, but by 8 months had lost 90% of the markings and just looked like Buff Orps unless you looked really close.

 

[CanuckBock]

Haha I was just wondering if someone created a "speckled" cornish.. what would they call it? How about a dark laced orp with I added?

Those patterns in general are not my thing so haven't really read up on their genetics. It IS a hoot from what I've seen though! btw- my similar peeve is how the name Crele gets abused- you mentioned Tolbunts, that reminded me of how it really chaps me to see "Crele Polish"- barring on either gold lace or just randomly bred/poorly patterned birds. No.. just no....... lol

I would have to agree...what are you to call something once the "traditional" label has been hijacked to explain something that it should not.

If you want to gain a headache...look at the hobby terms Porcelain, Isabel, and Mille Fleur...totally opposite meanings, from place to place. I mean, we should as a worldwide poultry community, decide which label should mean the addition of the genetic mutation of lav/lav and which is not. My head begins to hurt about here...

In the past, the Standards have been a bit off in naming breeds by variety and traits. Yeh, what to do with the BLUE "Buff" Duck (1914), the GOLD "Silver" Appleyard Duck (2000), the PIED "Buff" American Geese (1947), the NON-Tufted "Tufted" Roman Geese (1977), the NON-Saddlebacked "Saddleback" Pomeranian Geese (1977), the NOT-WHITE FACED "White Faced" Black Spanish (1874)...and what to do about the White Faced WHITE "Black" Spanish chickens (1874).

We have learned nothing much if the Appleyard was recognized as recently as 2000! Another breed with a colour variety of Silver IN the name! Few years back, I showed a Crested Silver Appleyard to an utterly mystified sanctioned judge. The crested variety is recognized in England...the country of origin. What was even more frightful...the show staff had the Appleyard breed listed in the MEDIUM class...it is a HEAVY Classed duck as per the APA SOP.

Why are the Rhode Island chickens two different BREEDS...the White (1922) and the Red (1904-single comb / 1905-rose comb)...those should be varieties within the breed, not breeds segregated by themselves.

Why are there only FEMALE Wheaten Shamos (1996) in the APA SOP but both genders in the ABA SOP... it has been a while since the girls got recognized. Maybe that is in the works...I grow tired of trying to keep pace with all this.

No, if you want to get thoroughly confused...try to make sense out of hobby names and the listings of "names" in the Standards...

I did get to learn something "new" yesterday, Friday the 13th, eh...we are not doing the genetic colourations any justice any more than we are even following what the hobby names are said to be, as described in the worded descriptions of the SOP's of the countries involved.

So glad I do not have to take any of this too seriously, eh. I just laugh, shrug and go, "Yeh...go figure eh...??" The more we know, the more we know nothing is carved in stone.

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

 

[jerryse]

Why are there only FEMALE Wheaten Shamos (1996) in the APA SOP but both genders in the ABA SOP... it has been a while since the girls got recognized. Maybe that is in the works...I grow tired of trying to keep pace with all this

In Old English game a wheaten male is the same as BB red . I assume it is the same for Shamo .

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Why are there only FEMALE Wheaten Shamos (1996) in the APA SOP but both genders in the ABA SOP... it has been a while since the girls got recognized. Maybe that is in the works...I grow tired of trying to keep pace with all this

In Old English game a wheaten male is the same as BB red . I assume it is the same for Shamo .

I cannot imagine that one gender was recognized and the other not. Generally, all ages of birds of both genders must meet the standard for a variety to become recognized. Why the sahmo description does not list colouring for the male or reference wheaten described on a different page I don;t know. That would be a good thing to ask your APA district director.

 

[Garjzla]

Hello! I want to make bantam hybrids so I thought I should start getting on genetic threads.

 

[Tammylr]

Maylays too, wheaten hen but no rooster.

 

[Garjzla]

So, does anyone know about breeding hybrids?

 

[313759]

The Hybrid Chicken is created by crossing 2 or more different pure breeds and sometimes crossing further after this. There are hybrid crosses that produce table birds and hybrid crosses that produce hens for laying. More recently, breeders have been producing hybrids that have attractive egg colours with supermarkets now selling coloured eggs such as those from the Cotswold Legbar or Burford Brown. For hobby poultry keepers there are often many different hybrid to choose from that are productive and ideal for beginners. Commercially, the hybrids' parents can no longer be considered as 'pure breed'. Specific strains have been created by crossing many generations, selecting for certain characteristics within the offspring such as egg numbers, feed conversion or a broad breast, fast maturity and body weight in the case of table hybrids. Hybrids do not breed true so when you need more of them, you have to go back to crossing the original stock again.

Benefits of Hybrid Chickens

There are a number of benefits of using hybrids instead of pure breeds. Since the blood lines are so different from the parents, the offspring are usually very fit and healthy. When certain breeds are crossed, sex linkage allows the sex of the chicks to be established at a day old by a difference in down colour which is useful when producing hens for laying since it reduces the rearing costs to the breeder and ultimately the price you pay. When crossing certain strains of birds, you can get 'Hybrid Vigor' where a chick is better than either of its parents. This is known as 'nicking'. For example, if the strains on the fathers and mothers side both lay 200 eggs per year, then the offspring might 'nick' and lay 220 per year. Some strains can also do the opposite though and lay 180 eggs per year so once the right strains have been established, breeders keep a closed flock of parent birds to ensure the quality of the offspring remains the same.

This is just one of the positive characteristics that is inherited from the parent strains and the reason why commercially, there are many different names given to the hybrids produced from a given hatchery or parent strains of birds. The "Black Rock" Hybrid for example is a registered name for a Rhode Island Red / Barred Plymouth Rock cross that comes from Crosslee Poultry Farm in Scotland. Every seller in the UK must buy their Black Rock chickens from this hatchery since the name is protected and refers to the hybrid that is produced from their specific strains. There are many other names for the same type of cross that are used by breeders but the type of hen you get may well perform differently.

Hybrid Hens for Beginners

Hybrids are ideal beginners birds, they are usually vaccinated (which is often un-economical for small quantities of pure breeds) and are generally quite tame and easy to handle. They are cheaper than pure breeds, you can expect to pay between £10 and £15 for a POL (Point of Lay) Hybrid, compared to £25 - £35 for a pure breed hen.

These are some popular Hybrid Layers:

Bovans Goldline (Rhode Island Red / Light Sussex)
Warren, Marans Cuivre (Rhode Island Red / Marans cross)
Bovans Nera, Black Star, Nera, Rhode Rock (Rhode Island Red / Barred Plymouth Rock cross)
Speckledy (Marans / Rhode Island Red)
Do you know of more? Please let us know in the comments box at the end of this page.

Breeding Hints

Hybrids do not breed true. If you cross a hybrid chicken with another breed or cross, you will not get the same bird with the same performance as the original hybrid, however 'like breeds like' and if you are careful with your choice of cross, you can still get some reasonably well performing birds.

(Here you go Keet)

 

[Garjzla]

The Hybrid Chicken is created by crossing 2 or more different pure breeds and sometimes crossing further after this. There are hybrid crosses that produce table birds and hybrid crosses that produce hens for laying. More recently, breeders have been producing hybrids that have attractive egg colours with supermarkets now selling coloured eggs such as those from the Cotswold Legbar or Burford Brown. For hobby poultry keepers there are often many different hybrid to choose from that are productive and ideal for beginners. Commercially, the hybrids' parents can no longer be considered as 'pure breed'. Specific strains have been created by crossing many generations, selecting for certain characteristics within the offspring such as egg numbers, feed conversion or a broad breast, fast maturity and body weight in the case of table hybrids. Hybrids do not breed true so when you need more of them, you have to go back to crossing the original stock again.

Benefits of Hybrid Chickens

There are a number of benefits of using hybrids instead of pure breeds. Since the blood lines are so different from the parents, the offspring are usually very fit and healthy. When certain breeds are crossed, sex linkage allows the sex of the chicks to be established at a day old by a difference in down colour which is useful when producing hens for laying since it reduces the rearing costs to the breeder and ultimately the price you pay. When crossing certain strains of birds, you can get 'Hybrid Vigor' where a chick is better than either of its parents. This is known as 'nicking'. For example, if the strains on the fathers and mothers side both lay 200 eggs per year, then the offspring might 'nick' and lay 220 per year. Some strains can also do the opposite though and lay 180 eggs per year so once the right strains have been established, breeders keep a closed flock of parent birds to ensure the quality of the offspring remains the same.

This is just one of the positive characteristics that is inherited from the parent strains and the reason why commercially, there are many different names given to the hybrids produced from a given hatchery or parent strains of birds. The "Black Rock" Hybrid for example is a registered name for a Rhode Island Red / Barred Plymouth Rock cross that comes from Crosslee Poultry Farm in Scotland. Every seller in the UK must buy their Black Rock chickens from this hatchery since the name is protected and refers to the hybrid that is produced from their specific strains. There are many other names for the same type of cross that are used by breeders but the type of hen you get may well perform differently.

Hybrid Hens for Beginners

Hybrids are ideal beginners birds, they are usually vaccinated (which is often un-economical for small quantities of pure breeds) and are generally quite tame and easy to handle. They are cheaper than pure breeds, you can expect to pay between £10 and £15 for a POL (Point of Lay) Hybrid, compared to £25 - £35 for a pure breed hen.

These are some popular Hybrid Layers:

Bovans Goldline (Rhode Island Red / Light Sussex)
Warren, Marans Cuivre (Rhode Island Red / Marans cross)
Bovans Nera, Black Star, Nera, Rhode Rock (Rhode Island Red / Barred Plymouth Rock cross)
Speckledy (Marans / Rhode Island Red)
Do you know of more? Please let us know in the comments box at the end of this page.

Breeding Hints

Hybrids do not breed true. If you cross a hybrid chicken with another breed or cross, you will not get the same bird with the same performance as the original hybrid, however 'like breeds like' and if you are careful with your choice of cross, you can still get some reasonably well performing birds.

(Here you go Keet)

Thank you so much!

 

[313759]

Your welcome