Color genetics thread.

[Wishapup]

.....

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

My original reply to this was accidentally erased by my browser. Thanks so much for all the detailed information, I really appreciate it! Your birds are beautiful, and I especially like the chest feathers on that Cuckoo Partridge.

My bantam mixes have sentimental value to me, which is why I keep hatching them.

Original Cross Cuckoo Hen x White Rooster:
F1: produced the black/white rooster in my photos, white hen, black hen, black hen with red/copper on the neck

Second Hatch: produced 2 cuckoo hens and this rooster (the hens in the background are unrelated):



Third hatch produced 1 black rooster, 1 white hen, and 2 barred roosters with small amounts of orange barring/gold leakage. Here's one of the barred/orange roosters as a chick:



Fourth hatch produced 3 white hens (2 were silkied!), 1 white rooster, the very colourful rooster pictured in my first & second posts (the orange/black wing and the body shot)....as well as this pullet that was wildtype as a chick. I've read that can happen when the genetics are quite mixed up so what is what the down colour defaults to.



She ended up as a pretty dark brown/black:



The bantams from the last hatch, including the one below, are 7 months old.

Fritz:


Fritz as a chick:

 

[CanuckBock]

The colour combination looks a bit Mille Fleur-like (but those genetics are not in these roosters' backgrounds, and it's not the same). Original cross, in the second photo, was a white Silkie and what I think was a cuckoo or barred Old English Game Bantam hen.

Dang, forgetful...I just took this pic the other day...Jan 3rd...

EVERY single bird in this pen has the Mille de Fleur colour pattern genetically speaking! ​

Recessive white in a double dose, obviously covers over the MDF pattern completely! So I have the self-Whites and the MDF and where some of the MDFs have a single dose of rec white in them (Dr. Carefoot and Mr. Ridler's advice to get bright top coat) already...literally some of the coloured MDFs are only one recessive allele away from self-white...

Explains your above use of the White Silkie as she could have been ANYTHING under her White (mottling, blue dilution in double dose, barring/cuckoo, dominant white, recessive white, and Silver--all these accentuate a white to be more white...exhibition White!)...makes guessing the colour genetics frightfully "anything goes!" to a point.

Hee hee...

Tara

 

[fadedracer]

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[fadedracer]

Wow, I must of pushed the wrong button, I was looking at the barred ( creel ) rooster. Some how it ended up on the MDF birds and white birds.

 

[CanuckBock]

Wow, I must of pushed the wrong button, I was looking at the barred ( creel ) rooster. Some how it ended up on the MDF birds and white birds.

The original cross being discussed was how a white bird could throw a coloured bird--sometimes the first question someone asks that leads down the colour genetic path!

Basic colour genetics example was provided by photo to show how Self-White may hide almost ANY colour pattern! MDF being hidden under these Self-White Booted Bantams...the only clincher to being full SOP compliance...the shank & toe colour differences of feather colours in the variety. Therefore why I have bothered to develop a dark skinned White Feathered Booted Bantam to breed with my dark skinned MDF feathered Booted Bantam. All very much compliant with SOP breeding of different recognized varieties (colour pattern) within a breed (shape).

If it wasn't for the specifics in the SOP's of certain coloured areas for certain varieties, like who would really care what skin or shank colour certain feather colours were in the birds, oui?


Quote:

Since this is a SOP thread...


I don't believe it is appropriate to pursue re-creation of unrecognized varieties further, do you?

I don't mind discussing avenues used here to pursue recognized varieties but with varieties (colour patterns) that are not likely to be replicated truly (with some like Pyle and Blue dilution being exceptions) and therefore not likely to be applied and recognized by the SOP's, I'd like NOT to get into trouble discussing how to make an UNrecognized variety like this one thanks!

You are free to make up varieties and indeed even apply to the powers that be to have these new varieties recognized but I think this thread is heading into dangerous waters if you want to replicate a pretty but not recognized colour pattern by crossing too many breeds to get what some would consider mostly a "mutt" chicken breed (Java x Rock).

I am one of the first to state that poultry does not require "pedigree police" (if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, etc...then enter in exhibition as a DUCK!) but there are limitations as to how far even someone such as myself is willing to go before we break rules rather than tastefully & gracefully BEND them.

Peace be with you & your colour pursuits.

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

 

[CanuckBock]

My original reply to this was accidentally erased by my browser. Thanks so much for all the detailed information, I really appreciate it! Your birds are beautiful, and I especially like the chest feathers on that Cuckoo Partridge.

My bantam mixes have sentimental value to me, which is why I keep hatching them.

Original Cross Cuckoo Hen x White Rooster:

...

No worries, it was fun exploring these colours...it is a great way to become more proficient at understanding colour genetics...getting your feet wet playing in the colours; mixing it up! Good to study books on the subject but spending time oogling live birds and playing "what if I crossed this..." by breeding them and then keeping good photo records and being able to identify the progeny to the parents...all excellent ways to play and learn hands on!

The one pattern you showed us on the white background is certainly eye catching, inspiring, and very enjoyable to view...thanks for that.

You do have to laugh because there is such a wonderful combination of two pigments (just red and just black pigments) with SO many glorious outcomes in the chicken feathers. A marvel of nature we can have so many different expressions in our chooks.

I apologize for labelling the White Silkie a "she" in post 52...she, he; dom or rec white is not gender linked so not too problematic but would be for say barred/cuckoo which IS gender linked. I was having a tad too much fun and ran over the specific details in haste ...shameful but giddiness to see such purdy feathers can get one wrapped up in the moment.

One can certainly feel your love and enthusiasm for your birds. Most commendable and appreciated. Do carry on...we had a male like the one from your second hatch...I adored the vivid shiny beetle green black on his wing bows and in his tail feathers...some of the patterns on a single feather had me amazed at the beauty...in one feather!

I liked the colour pattern so much, I decided to put them in some earrings...one of the two feathers are at the very top here...photo does not do the green glistening of the black markings any justice but I know the green is exactly like the green your boy has...so very lovely isn't it!

​

Chicken, duck, pheasant and turkey feathers...

​

Blows one's mind these are bird feathers...when I see them in this form, I have to pinch myself that these ARE my birds...and the feathers I helped them produce... a renewable resource they simply shed when they moult, eh!

​

The two feathers are right at the top of the white paper, just under the Red Golden Pheasant tail feather.​

Feathers used in the above earrings...duck, chicken, pheasant, & turkey!​

And many people think that chickens only come in white feathers...sigh!

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

 

[fadedracer]

If I am not mistaking the one feather on the picture is a feather carrying a double dose of Ap gene ( Autosomal Phaeomelanin ). To me personally I still like the silver pencilled feather the best. If someone could produce a bird the color of the (True) grey jungle fowl (male color ) and it lays deep blue eggs, then you have a beautiful flock. Also if beginner chicken people enjoy crossing different colors to see what they get, Why not? Life is about producing the chicken you truly enjoy looking at, because you do pay for the feed bill. Although I agree, please, please do not sell offspring as ( pure bred ) if there is such a thing. Its too bad in life that we poultry people can`t get together and swap notes, ( but I guess we are in this forum ) so we could save time and mistakes. But then again, the figuring out was part of the fun. Have fun everyone, with poultry genetics.

 

[redrooster99]

Since this is a SOP thread...


I don't believe it is appropriate to pursue re-creation of unrecognized varieties further, do you? 

I don't mind discussing avenues used here to pursue recognized varieties but with varieties (colour patterns) that are not likely to be replicated truly (with some like Pyle and Blue dilution being exceptions) and therefore not likely to be applied and recognized by the SOP's, I'd like NOT to get into trouble discussing how to make an UNrecognized variety like this one thanks!  

You are free to make up varieties and indeed even apply to the powers that be to have these new varieties recognized but I think this thread is heading into dangerous waters if you want to replicate a pretty but not recognized colour pattern by crossing too many breeds to get what some would consider mostly a "mutt" chicken breed (Java x Rock).

I am one of the first to state that poultry does not require "pedigree police" (if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, etc...then enter in exhibition as a DUCK!)  but there are limitations as to how far even someone such as myself is willing to go before we break rules rather than tastefully & gracefully BEND them.   

Peace be with you & your colour pursuits. 
   
[COLOR=333333][COLOR=333333]Doggone & Chicken UP![/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=333333][COLOR=333333]Tara Lee Higgins[/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=333333][COLOR=333333]Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada[/COLOR][/COLOR]

At the beggining of this thread, when I created it itbwas for this purpose, to learn about the chicken colors. I understand what u are saying, but I believe it is ok to talk about this. I think that it would be ok to talk about everything from comb type to leg color. Now I may be wrong but this is how I feel about it.


I would realy like to know the topic previously discussed. Are they basically barred mottled birds, this is confusing.

 

[fadedracer]

If red rooster99 is asking me the question or everyone the question, I will take a stab at it. It appears you have a americauna hen ( blue or kaki egg layer ) sometimes called a easter egger. She appears to be a buff bird carrying lots of modifiers and has the columbian gene thus the black tail and hack feathers. So what color are you wanting to produce from her? creels? add barred. Mille Fleurs? add mottled gene ( this will give you the V-shaped white tips on feathers ) Hope this helps. The picture I am looking at is of a hen chicken looking down, but she looks like she might have a beard and ear tuffs )

 

[redrooster99]

If red rooster99 is asking me the question or everyone the question, I will take a stab at it. It appears you have a americauna hen ( blue or kaki egg layer ) sometimes called a easter egger. She appears to be a buff bird carrying lots of modifiers and has the columbian gene thus the black tail and hack feathers. So what color are you wanting to produce from her? creels? add barred. Mille Fleurs? add mottled gene ( this will give you the V-shaped white tips on feathers ) Hope this helps. The picture I am looking at is of a hen chicken looking down, but she looks like she might have a beard and ear tuffs )

What about barred mille fleur